Audi Q7 wins over Land Rover Discovery 3

So let's recap if you just joined this sorry tale.

November 2004 - Bought Discovery 3 HSE First Build - electronic melt down - Park Brake Failure - car left us stranded - took Land Rover 3 weeks to figure out what was wrong after changing many components.

July 2005 After the launch of this blog and exerting huge pressure on Land Rover - they replace my Build 1 car with a brand new Build 2 car - electronics system goes wrong with 400 miles on the clock! They replace the passenger air bag.

I give them a second chance - this is now news to the readers - the car goes wrong once again - with a Suspension Fault, Park Brake Failure and Transmission Fault all in the same week. I then am given a loan Discovery 3 SE which in a week also has a Park Brake Failure! So Land Rover replaces the loan car with a Range Rover Sport. This car is built on the same chassis as the Discovery 3 and uses the same electronic components. Guess what - this too goes wrong - Park Brake Failure!!

So I throw up my hands in the air and tell Land Rover that they have a problem - failure of 4 different Vehicles - yet they tell me this fault is somehow connected to me personally. Trying to blame my blackberry device claiming interference!

So they took the car back and refunded my money in full and I am no longer a Land Rover ower - but I continue to get a few hundred hits a day on this site and I am going to make sure that prospective owners are fully aware of the terrible QA problems this car suffers from.

Only today I got a comment posting from Garrick who says:

Thanks for the blog info. My 97 Range Rover and I have a love/ hate relationship, I love it when its working. My wife and I, are now shopping for a new car, and I thought that since the LR3 was redesigned from the ground up, and financed with tons of money from Ford, that maybe, this vehicle would be the one to change the LR reputation. But after reading the JD Power review, the Intelichoice review, and this blog, I have to (regretedly) admit that this may not be the LR3 I had hoped it would be, which is disapointing because there is so much I love about the vehicle. That post about the spare key losing its charge, is so typical, LR does not think it through; what are all the problems that may arise when the key loses its charge? My advice to LR is this, make it bullet proof. Don't build a vehicle that is supposed to go anywhere off road, but can't be trusted to go to France for a couple of weeks. Get back to your LR roots, which is an off road vehicle that is trusted, trusted like a well bred horse, a vehicle that is more like an old friend, that you know you can depend on when you need him. LR is anything but that right now.

So aren't you wondering what I spent the £45k on? I am waiting for this:

Its the Audi Q7 - it looks amazing - Seven Seats too and everything and more than the Disco 3 fails to deliver - the difference is: its built with German Precision and Quality- great Diesel Engine too , on the Chassis of the Touareg/Porsche Cayenne but with a little added Audi finesse. I am on the waiting list and Audi have sold me an A6 Avant in the meantime. So I am counting down to mid-2006. My wife & I just love the Audi A6 though and every time we drive it: we are reminded of just how we trust, respect and admire this Great Solid German Brand. We are left wondering why we ever gave Land Rover a chance. They failed us.

I also decided on an Audi dealership outside London - I was right - you get better attention and care - so if you are interested in adding your name to mine on the waiting list then email Peter Barker who will go the extra mile for you I am sure.

After talking to a vehicle journalist the other day, I now undertsand why Ford in the US is starting to get sick and tired of the lack of Quality coming out of the workforce in the UK - expect to see production moved to the US soon - sorry for Brit Bashing here but its true. The quality is just not there guys - something has to be done.

Comments

[paul]

I am also interested in the Q7 can't wait to try it out.

Paul

www.audi-review.com

[steve]

Interesting. I've had two Audi's in the past, and if I could justify spending money on a car right now, I'd have another one.

My first Audi coupe was purchased with 125k miles on the clock. Tough and reliable as it was, it failed to survive its collision with an italian juggernaut on the M4 - bashed 6 times by 38 tons but it still ground to a halt with me in one piece (with 175k on the clock). Coupe number 2 was equally tough and reliable, (purchased with 120k miles on the clock), and both had that wonderful 5-cylinder petrol engine- such a shame this is no more.

Have fun with your Germans, the Brits (I hate to say it) aint up to it.

[Steve]

Sir
Correct me if I'm wrong but the quality issues with the LandRover, were these not down to software issues, pertaining to a german company? I agree that Land Rover UK should have taken responsibility for the car's failings, but to blame it on the UK workforce...is this fair? your thoughts please...

[adrian]

Steve, my allegations regarding the UK workforce are a result of a discussion held with a motoring journalist who spoke of problems accross Ford's entire UK production - there may be some truth in your point about german components going wrong in the Land Rover but the Bosch components you speak of are used in the Audi too!

[Steve]

Adrian
Thanks for the response - let's hope the Bosch system continues to function in the Audi. I believe this system is also in the BMW 7-series and problems have been reported there too (built in Munich?)... as with most stories, a little more complex than at first glance.

What does Nissan say about UK workforces, I wonder?

[Luca Monterzino]

I had lots of mechanical and electonical problems on my two last VW (same as Audi) cars. The first was a Passat Variant TD 1.9 '02 and the actual is a VW Touran 2.0 TDI. On the Passat I changed two times the radio, one time the anterior suspensions in the first year. On the Touran there are electronic malfunctions on the car-alarm, radio, road-computer, internal lights and so on. The cooling impeller engine was substituted before the car was consigned to me (same thing was done on all Audi A3 sold in the end of 2003). Now I ordered a D3 HSE and I'm hoping that it will be a good car!

Best Regards,
Luca Monterzino

[Joseph]

I am trying to purchase a Land Rover Discovery 3 which is road compatible in UK and Europe but Land Rover will not provide me with the options I need (red tape and all that!).
Since I will be taking the vehicle to the continent in 2 years time, I need a Left Hand Drive. However, a LHD vehicle has no certificate of compatability for use in UK. Therefore, I would'nt be able to register the vehicle in UK.
The 'holding back issue' is that Land Rover will not factory fit a speedometer with KPH and MPH (as for a RHD spec). They will only fit a KPH speedometer on a LHD. I have attempted (and written to everyone at Land Rover) to reason for an optional fit (with payment) of a UK spec speedometer - No way says Land Rover!!! even though these are readily available in the factory!

The second issue is the lighting - there is no means of simply switching over the lights for RHD use in UK. The lights can only be 'lowered' but not aligned.

Most German quality cars have dual reading (KPH/MPH) digital speedometers for use in this country. They also have a customer friendly switching device for alignment of the lights from left to right and vice versa.

But, Oh No, not land Rover they couldn't do this it's too complicated to do on the most technologically advanced vehicle (4x4) in the world - Come on Land Rover Wake up - people move between mainland Europe and UK for long period of time and they want a vehicle that can be used everywhere. Customers are not prepared to purchase a £36K + vehicle only to have retrofit RHD lights and UK speedometer and the cost associated with this. Technology advancement - right enough!!!!

A banned prospective buyer of Land Rover.

Joseph.L.Serra

[John Lee]

Still a very capable vehicle. There are bad builds of every car. Here is a video of the LR3 doing its thing! http://www.blackbookforum.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=403

[Rudolf]

Interesting. Living In South Africa I decided to go for off road in style and purchased a Range Rover II, 4.6HSE. This car gave so many problems, that we ended up renting a Toyota Land Cruiser when going into the (real) bush. Problems with the electronic air suspension and a wide variety of other electronic and mechanical malfunctions and the service organisation's inability (we tried 3 different dealerships) to diagnose and repair these, have made us decide to turn away from Land Rover all together. There is a saying here that after a day in the bush the first thing all Land Rover owners do before setting up camp, is to open the bonnet: either to start their daily repair or to gaze in amazement that nothing broke that day.....
PS. our experience with Land Rover is matched by at least 85% of the Land Rover owners I spoke with, in- and outside the waiting room at the dealership.

[Fernando Nogueira]

Just in case you think a £54k Range Rover V8 4.4 HSE is any better, here is my experience for what is worth:
- Lovely car, crap engineering and quality control.
Bought the car Jan 2003 with 2,500 miles on the clock. During the first month of ownership, it went back to the dealer's garage in Croydon (Harwoods) to rectify a serious windscreen wind noise for which they could not identify the cause. The car stayed at the dealer for a month !
They also could not rectify until today, the fact that when you press the key twice, a mistery memory setting sets the electric seats, mirrors etc in a position which cannot be deleted and has not been set by myself. On a trip to Portugal in the Summer of 2003, the RR decided to come to halt, with the rear wheels locked and all the lights flashing after some serious jolts at 110 mph on the motorway. Land Rover Assistance was excellent while the car was at the main Land Rover Dealer in Lisbon for two weeks, without the dealership being able to identify the problem. RR ended up being transported back to UK dealer on flat bed truck and the family flown back. New transfer box installed. New front diff installed two months later, all under warranty. LCD display screen replaced twice. During this Summer 2005 and due to a lose pipe rubbing slowly against the fan, engine overheats when crossing the mountains near Santander, towing a 1.3 ton Chris-Craft speed boat. Land Rover Assistance recommends slow drive to Burgos Land Rover dealer. Despite several fill-ups, engine seizes and comes to a halt. New engine installed at 44,000 miles at a cost of £ 8,600 with a generous 50% parts and labour contribution from Land Rover Spain, as the warranty had expired in March 2005.
Love the car, shame about the quality ! Conclusion: Waiting for a Q7. After owning an A6 and 2 A8s, I should have stuck to German engineering, which I believed the new RR had, due to its BMW ascendency. Wrong !

[Ernest Mennen]

As temperatures are going down I was trying to start the cabin pre-heating in my discovery hse.
This accessoire is part of the COLD climat pack, and it stays that way.
I start the settings program, then cabin preheat on, then install time and after one more step I close settings.
This only works minutes before starting the heater.
When I try this the evening before, the heater will not start the next morning.
Does anyone have the same problem and/or a solution ??

Ernest Mennen, The Netherlands.

[Alex]

I have owned many Land Rovers in the past, and recently purchased a LR3 V8 HSE (Top of the line)(Discovery 3 in the UK). I love it! It has been more reliable than my less than perfect 2002 Range Rover (Old body style) and even better than my new 2005 Range Rover (BTW I still like my Range Rover better). My LR3 had to go in for a recall on the parking brake, but that was it. It was in and out within 2 days. It is great for hauling my crap around. For the Range Rover Sport, my brother bought a black HSE w/ every option and is so far so I have heard, great! It really is the same as the LR3(Disco. 3) However I am really reluctant to buy a 2006 Range Rover (trading in the 2002). If I want a Ford, I will buy a FORD! I won't spend $75000 USD on a car that is exactly the same as the $35,000 ford.

[Clarkie]

Stop sooking and take ya blouse off. Its wingers like you that make it hard for the rest of us.
Lets see your nice Q7 climb "Lions Back"

[Steve Cooper]

Hi, I bought a Discovery V6HSE just over a year ago, got rid of it last week. The most unreliable car I have ever owned. I live in Germany where the temperature is often below 0 degree c, Disco 3 doesn't like the cold, the pre heater won't work, the gearbox/suspension goes into safe mode when it feels like it,the memory seats have the memory span of a Goldfish. Then again it doesn't like the heat either! While in Spain in July(when we found Spain as the Western Europe Sat Nav doesn't cover much of Spain in detail)the electrical system packed up all together. Landrover assist, didn't assist as I bought the car tax free I wasn't entitled to European assistance, so spent a day getting it to Girona to get it repaired. Went skiing at Christmas to the French Alps took my 1995 300tdi Discovery as it is more reliable and more economical on fuel. DON'T BUY ONE

[Eric. Boardman]

I'm not a land rover owner, but I was steering towards the LR 3 as my next vehicle - also aware that many have concerns with landrover reliability. I would caution though an over emphasis on Audi reliability - many posts on the net talk of electronic woes which even the CEO of audi admits to. In addition, the road to qaulity for landrover I suspect has been a very steep learning curve, which may not produce its ultimate fruit for 5 to 10 years (think of american cars at one stage compared to japanese)- unfortunately it is the public that bares the brunt of this in the mean time. I think you are quite right in demanding your money back - hopefully these types of demands will make the necessary impressions on them, but I equally hope that this spells the renaissance of landrover and not its demise.

I would also be interested to know overall what the percentage of complaints are relative to purchases and whether statistically this is small or large

[Nik Samuelson]

Purchase a LR3 12/4/05, here is my story.

7/9/05 Reported steering knock on rouch road, no problem found

16/9/05 Sent back to get LR authority to go over vehicle, no porblem found

5/10/05 Sent for further investigation by LR no result

20/10/05 Same problem starting to get some real attention form LR

30/11/05 Verbal notification of a steering problem

19/12/05 Formal letter form LR accepting acknowledging the problem.

"Our technical department has advised me that your concern has been recognised as a significant issue, which is currently under investigation with the LR engineering department in the UK"

23/12/05 Low coolant problem bottle replaced.

19/1/06 Lack of power and transmission clunking, no real response, all seems Ok was the response.

24/2/06 Lack of power in the engine. No response all seems OK was the report.

There is no followup from LR on the steerign problem, I need to call every month to see what is happening. Very poor service.

Great car when it works, I would never buy one. "If I knew then....

[Dirk]

Sorry guys, but I have one (LR3) for 1 year and 20,000 miles and have had NO PROBLEMS whatsoever. This is the most reliable car I ever owned (HAD VW Beetle TDI and one AUDI A6 TDI before with lots of electrical and engine failures)never an AUDI again!. Service sucked big time and after spending 65,000Euro on the audi I sold it after 1 year and purchased the Landrover.
I still trust the LR guys.
Everybody can have a monday morning car, even Toyota's.

[Palement]

The problem is that companies are trying to transform off road vehicles into limosines. Let people who need and know how to drive heavy machinery do just that and the rest of you drive your mini-vans.

[John Pitcher]

I am seriously thinking of buying a Discovery 3 SE TdV6, and have just stumbled across this blog, which is causing me to rethink my choice. The Audi Q7 is not an off-road vehicle, like the BMW X5 and Volvo XC90 it is aimed at people who will drive on made roads with snow, ice etc as the obstacle. Audi actually despecced the Touareg's offroadability when designing the Q7 which is based it. I want to go seriously off-road in the Australian outback, and the Disco seems to fit the bill perfectly. The only serious alternative is the Toyota Landcruiser, but it is outclassed by the Disco in almost every respect, especially on-road, excepting reliability judging by this blog. Has LR sorted out the reliability issues, or are 2006 model D3's just as likely to have problems?

[Gavin Roffey]

Stop moaning you lot.Just be grateful you can afford to own a LR3. Not on Mega Bucks like you lot must be on,to own one. Would love to own one and would be proud to do so.As someone else said, you will always get a friday afternoon car plus they cannot be that bad the amount you see on the road

[Dennis Crespo]

Just traded my 04 VW T-REG (Loaded V8) for an 06 LR3 HSE.

I put 50k miles on the VW in less than 2 years, 20k of it in the snow of Sierras and 5k off-road in the summers. It was in the shop for a total of 16 weeks due to exhaust parts failure, electrical issues. and brakes ($2k service!). The engine and transmission were fine, but other things would fail every month, so I decided to dump it after the warranty period ended.

I bought the LR3 because I was tired of getting stuck in T-REG because the car said that ESP was off and axles were locked, which is correct for deep snow or mud, but I found out that when it struggles in the 1 foot of snow or mud the computer turns ESP back on to protect the engine and transmission using breaking to slow the wheels. So I guess VW though better to have some customers stuck than completely broke from warranty repairs costs.

Now I'm going to test the law of averages and hope that my LR3 will not let me down. I'll post my results and updates. if you all are interested?

Dennis
License plate was SNOW REG, now is SNO ROVR. :)

[Peter Dunkley]

I have read with fascination all of your Land Rover comments. I currently own a Range Rover 3.0 TD6 HSE (2002 model) which I bought as a used car last January. It had a few niggles that needed to be sorted which were all done under warranty. However, it has now had to be rescued 3 times in the last 3 months. Once for a complete transmission failure (warranty replaced). Then for failure of all 6 fuel injectors, which were not under warranty and cost £1500 to replace. Only for it to break down again 1 week later. One of the "new" fuel injectors had failed! All in all the car now has to go. My wife will not drive it for fear of breaking down and every morning we hold our breath that it will start. Land Rover will now lose our custom for ever. Service has been shocking and blame passed to anyone who cannot answer for themselves. We are test driving a host of cars tomorrow, none as nice to look at as the range rover, but at least it will no longer be a piece of "stationary motorway art" for other moving drivers to look at!
As an aside my sisters partner also has a range rover, the TD6 Vogue, which as also broken down many times (2 broken prop shafts to date). They are also getting rid of it.
So long Land Rover, never will you get my hard earned cash again!

[Rob]

The range rover owns the Audi 7

I read a review at http://www.rangerover2006.com and the advantages of the range rover way outweight the Audi Q7.

[Rob]

The range rover owns the Audi 7

I read a review at http://www.rangerover2006.com and the advantages of the range rover way outweight the Audi Q7.

[David Watson]

I've had the 2.7 diesel SE auto for almost 12 months, and have covered 10,000 miles, both very short and very long trips. The car has been fantastic, absolutely no problems at all. Sorry to hear some people have been unhappy, but it goes to show there may be some cars out their that have initial component problems. The new Discovery is one of the best cars I've had.

[Stuart Summers]

To Denis Crespo - a lot of engine problems, but this 3.0 TD6 is a BMW engine. So much for German engineering...

[Jordan Hauser]

Contrary to what many have said about the new LR3, I have found it to be one of the most capable and impressive vehicles out there. Having the luxury of spending my summer driving around a one-of-a-kind LR3 has allowed me to test it in some diverse situations, both on and off road. Check out www.builttour.com for loads of pics and some stories, news, about my adventure in the LR3. If only to strengthen your arguement against it, read up on what we are doing with it and how it performs to further educate yourself before diving into buying an SUV from a car maker, not an off-road specialist company.

[mike]

yeah i go to school for automotive technology and i would NEVER buy an audi or its parent vw, they are electrical nightmares!!

[neville Galloway]

I own a 2005 Disco 3,TDV6 HSE.
Apart from a few niggles, like the automatic hand brake sticking (repaired very quickly) i have had no problems with this vehicle.Covered 14k miles so far and its a joy to drive.That is more than i can say for some of the German cars i have owned. I would say to any one looking to buy one, dont be put off by this blog. I would certainly buy another one.

[Glen Smith]

last week I took delivery of my new Q7, after having aowned a XC90,I wanted more fun more quality, technology and the reliablity of the volvo. having driven the new ML, and discovery, I ordered the Q7 without a test drive. I have always bought a car to impress me and not others! and wow the Q7 certainly does. If you are a farmer or intend to traverse the Amazon jungle then get a LD3...try the Q7 remember its a sports SUV (even the diesel)and put enjoyment back in to your motoring.

Hey anybody considering the new Merc GL..almost same price as the Q7

[Robin Burrows]

I dont own one and could never afford to but I have a 300TDI disco 1. I had it second hand but since owning it, it has donw 120 thousand miles flawlessly. I have upgraded suspension, given + 2" lift, fitted new wheel arches, intercooler, polybushes, gas shocks, tyres, steering protector winch and bumper, half roof rack. It works wonders off road, fording, towing trailers and had up to 1.5 tonnes of load in it plus 3 tonnes towing. Yes I hae had electric central locking issues, corrosion and rust but other than that parts are cheap, car is good and I look after it like a child.
I love it. If landrover can do this then the company just needs to sort out teething issues with new vehicle and ownership. fed back as much as you can and hopefully it will get fixed its giving good work to uk employees and maintaining a brilliant product idea. Id rather have my now old car than a new jeep or audi or anything else.

[Paul]

The comments about the Q7 over Discovery 3 are really distorted. I have tried both cars and Q7 has a lot of technological gadgets but is not a truly 4x4. Not to mention the extremely dull interior and the 3rd row is not functional. Discovery 3 is a real 4x4 with tons of more versatility than Q7.

[Glen Smith]

having now owned a Q7 for four months i can report how pleased i am with the car.It significantly overshadows my XC90 of three years and is the envy of all my friends and their unreliable and very common LRD3's, and who all spent a lot less money as the audi is really a competitor for the range rover Sport.My Quattro Q7 would anhilate the Discovery on the Dakar Rally,but would not dream of traversing a Rain forest with a LRD3,Horses for courses, if you are able to aford this type of car, then talk to a few genuine owners.All these Vehicles are in a luxury frontier technology league of their own,and are lifestyle products.whats yours?

[Glen Smith]

having now owned a Q7 for four months i can report how pleased i am with the car.It significantly overshadows my XC90 of three years and is the envy of all my friends and their unreliable and very common LRD3's, and who all spent a lot less money as the audi is really a competitor for the range rover Sport.My Quattro Q7 would anhilate the Discovery on the Dakar Rally,but would not dream of traversing a Rain forest with a LRD3,Horses for courses, if you are able to aford this type of car, then talk to a few genuine owners.All these Vehicles are in a luxury frontier technology league of their own,and are lifestyle products.whats yours?

[AM510657]

I really do not know why you spend your time and energy to write all hose stupidities on Audi Q7.
This is Disco 3 site. If you have something to say on Disco 3 just do it. It’s what we expect. Otherwise just go somewhere else to pray for your church. We are not interested in it at all.

[Paul]

It’s interesting that a 4WD with such hype and promise as the D3 turned out to be such a bitter disappointment. I think that is the point. Land Rover seem to keep spending more and more on advertising and building an image of a vehicle that simply does not exist. Had they put all this money into quality control and design, integrating the very complicated electronics with what is a solid chassis, they would not be in the mess they are, nor would their customers. I bought a D3 V8 HSE in Australia from the largest dealer in Western Sydney which, at the time of sale, were in such a hurry to get me out of the showroom, they had neglected to do the delivery service, which hinted at a beleaguered future for the D3. This was not the cause of the ongoing problems but a sign of things to come. Following on from then, serious issues developed: A crack in the windscreen which mysteriously appeared after driving out of the showroom; engine cooling system faults with low coolant warnings linked to faulty sensors, continual cooling system issues after the replacement of two sensors and finally replacement of the entire cooler reservoir and sensor; complete failure of the air suspension system, rendering the car flat on the ground and un-driveable, towed on a flatbed some 150km to the nearest dealer; the air suspension system had to be completely replaced, far more time in the garage than on the road at this stage; then having had the car without any problems for a record 3 weeks, the diagnostics systems started showing a “transmission fault” cause and problem unknown, back to the dealer – could not diagnose so did a system reset; meanwhile had some reasonably good off-road experiences, it handled dirt and sand tracks OK (although no better than my old Forester), then another transmission fault warning, but no discernable problem, so I left it; only a week or so later whilst driving on a dirt road we had a COMPLETE SYSTEM shutdown – the entire car shut down DEAD at 100km/h, no power steering, no brakes, no power no nothing – we stopped for 5 min switched the ignition on & off and it started, drove home very carefully (this also happened once again later on bitumen); this time it was off the road for 2 weeks – they removed 9 computer system modules and replaced them, said they had loose contacts; they also replaced the entire fuel tank system as it was recalled; three weeks later another complete shutdown at 80km/h on a sealed bitumen road – this was it, the car had to go. But here’s the strange thing, I actually struggled with this thought, the car drove well on road, had a beautifully smooth V8 engine and inside was quite a nice car to drive, when it worked. I think I entered my own crusade to defend the decscion I had made to buy it, and to make it work. But this is nuts, It’s not like we bought a $20k Hyundai (would have been better off), or a $40k Forester (which we had and was brilliant), or even a $65k Toyota Landcruiser (would have been the smart option), the Land Rover D3 was a $105k vehicle which we bought on the back of a very convincing campaign positioning it as 4WD of the year, a technological landmark in off road vehicles. I had written several very detailed and demanding letters to Land Rover explaining my situation and dismay, requesting a new vehicle, which fell on deaf ears. Their arrogant attitude was to fix the problems to manufacturers warranty requirements and no more. That’s the point, they knew giving me a new car wouldn’t have fixed the issues, as the manufacturers warranty was not worth a pinch of s…t. The fundamental issue is poor design, poor manufacturing and poor quality control. The car has good engines, both the V8 and TDV6, good structural chassis, but lousy integration between engine/chassis and the myriad of electronics and control systems. They know this and yet keep selling this overpriced donkey as “4WD of the year”. I had a period of about 2 months where there were no other problems and felt comfortable enough to sell it myself, as Land Rover did nothing to help me out of this situation. So $18k out of pocket and a touch wiser, I would say – steer clear of the Land Rover. We have now bought a 2nd hand Toyota Landcruiser, tough reliable and comes with a heritage that Land Rover can only dream of.I only wish I had found this post before buying one.

[Chris Kahandaliyan age]

I haven’t owned any Land Rovers outright, but had access to many models on international assignments during the last 29 years. My worst experience was with 2000 disco with a TD 5 engine, which I imported brand new as my vehicle for the project. In less than 5,000 km. I had numerous problems related to electronics. It is a well-built vehicle with an underpowered diesel engine as compared to Nisan Patrols or Land Cruises that were thought to be superior; but the Disco took me to places where only Land Rovers would dare. I am not a diehard Land Rover enthusiast, but soon to be an owner of a 2004 Disco HSE, the of that read. Crossing Sahara desert, Land Rover still commands its historical place and the respect for reliability. Some are as old as 60 years!

[Chris Kahandaliyan age]

I haven’t owned any Land Rovers outright, but had access to many models on international assignments during the last 29 years. My worst experience was with 2000 disco with a TD 5 engine, which I imported brand new as my vehicle for the project. In less than 5,000 km. I had numerous problems related to electronics. It is a well-built vehicle with an underpowered diesel engine as compared to Nisan Patrols or Land Cruises that were thought to be superior; but the Disco took me to places where only Land Rovers would dare. I am not a diehard Land Rover enthusiast, but soon to be an owner of a 2004 Disco HSE, the of that read. Crossing Sahara desert, Land Rover still commands its historical place and the respect for reliability. Some are as old as 60 years!

[Paul]

The comments here are about the Discovery3 particularly, which certainly have a history now...for being unreliable, that's been my experience having owned an HSE.

Buyer beware

[steve]

I have owned 1 late model Disco 2 & 3 HSE V6 Disco 3's. I had 2 minor issues (leaks) on the D2 in 3 years & 1 steering (slight clonk) on 1 of my D3's. Overall I have found Land rovers reliable & service good. Before I had LR's I had a new late model Frontera - major gearbox faliure, steering recall, transmission failure - you name it- People generally dont come to this site to praise the car.

[Paul A]

I just bought a high spec Audi Q7. I wouldn't even consider a Disco, they're slow, thirsty, unreliable in the extreme. odd looking, and I don't climb mountains or ford lakes very often. The Audi is AS amazing as the Disco was disappointing.

[Paul Brown]

I currently own a Q7 3.0TDI Sline, having previously owned two discovery 3 2.7tdv6HSE models and a Volvo XC90D5SE (I run a car rental business and change cars every 6 months). Each car covers around 15k over 6 months. My views are - Volvo nice but dull, very practical but not always reliable (creaks/rattles/electrical faults). LR Disco 3 - wonderful to use, smooth, calming, very practical, solid and well thought out, I experience 2 faults - suspension dropping (fixed in 10 minutes) and boot lock failure - fixed after 2 trips. Went on 2 LR experience days and this car is simply unbelievable.
Audi Q7 - fast, comfortable, amazing driving experience, excellent technology, wonderful engine/gearbox, poor interior packaging for such a big car, excellent quality and 1 electrical failure to date (Satnav/MMI display).

Overall if the dash finish of the Disco was of higher quality (like the new Freelander and RR Sport) I would have another (especially if they put the new 3.6 Diesel in it! Although the Audi is a better road car nothing comes close to the LR as an alrounder.

[Richard]

I am so glad to find this blog and I can’t tell you how grateful I am for sparing me an experience. I didn’t realise that Land Rover are owned by Ford. Having seen some of the comments I will not be buying an LR. I need a tow car and the Discovery 3 was my prime choice. “Was” being the operative word! Because, in 2004 our company bough a brand new Ford Transit Connect and had it converted to dual fuel (LPG & Petrol) by a recommended Ford converter. After 8 months the engine developed a major fault. The vehicle was left with the Ford dealer in May 05 and after 2 months the dealer technicians still couldn’t tell us what was wrong and needed a Ford technician to look at the vehicle. Once they had “inspected” the vehicle we were told it needed a new engine and it was not covered by warranty as the recommended converter had gone bust. Never the less we agreed to have a new engine fitted. Months later still no vehicle ready. Asked for a courtesy vehicle, didn’t get one. Contacted the toothless tiger called “Ford Customer Services” only to find they were happy with the dealer fobbing us both off. Eventually I called “Ford Customer Services” for yet another update only to be told for the umpteenth time “it should be ready sometime next week”. I’d had enough so I had a rant at the gonad and told him I would plant a 40foot trailer outside the dealer and not let anything in or out until our vehicle was ready. By now it was the end of November 2005. Yes November 2005! Yes 7 Months they had the van!! When we collected the van the LPG didn’t work, the lights didn’t work and the indicators didn’t work. So you see looking at this web site I now realise that Ford are only interested in receiving your money and once they have it they don’t give a crap about you because they are the world car maker of Ford. To me they are crap. I’d rather buy a Kia, you could have a 5 year warranty!

[Charles]

Adrian, You'll probably discard this comment as your pathetic website is an advocate and nest for poor complaining lazy old farts who don't have anything better to do than negatively critisizing a brilliant brand e.g. Discovery. I think you are a fucking idiot of whom Discovery was correct, the faults should be blamed on your own incompetence. I can just imagine the stupidity that lead to your vehicle problems. Grow up!

[El Jacko]

Here's a hint when a fancy new americanized ponsy Dicovery 3 conks out. Get a refund and buy a Discovery 2 or a nearly-new Range Rover, both of which were built BEFORE Ford cocked up the range. My parents have had a '96 Discovery 1 for nearly 3 years now and it hasn't once failed us. And it weighs less than a large elephant. And it'll tow a 2ton dead weight out of a river. So stop waiting for an Audi, which will also fail miserably without permanent 4WD and get a second hand Land Rover!!

[El Jacko]

Oh, and by the way, after re-reading you snide remarks at the bottome of your blog I have this to say: The frankly hopeless new cars aren't the fault of our Land Rover Plant. FORD tells them what to do, so FORD is to blame for such a pathetic output of over-priced, over-weight, under-powered planet-killing behemoths. Just look at the some of the first ever land rovers. Only 10% of Land Rovers from pre-2000 have kicked the bucket. The rest still work. It is not Land Rovers fault for the shoddy cars. Once again, the blame falls with Uncle Sam. So stop the Britain Bashing, you non-believer!!!

[kurtdaniel]

the Q7 placed an impressive second (behind Mercedes-Benz GL450) in a recent comparison between five brand-new seven-passenger luxo-utes. The Q7 4.2 is a welcome addition to a field already crowded with leather-lined land yachts, but far from exceeding its capacity for those with the kind of performance and style that characterize the
audi head gasket Q7.

[John Wallis]

The Range Rover quick facts

The most complete luxury 4x4 in the world - the flagship of the Land Rover range
Available with a new twin turbo V8 diesel engine or supercharged V8 and 6-speed automatic transmission with Command Shift as standard.
New supremely-refined interior with improved ergonomics, stowage and climate control, enhanced safety systems and availability of cooled front seats.
Introduction of Terrain Response™ to optimise settings for gearbox, throttle, Air suspension and Traction control to suit all driving terrains from tarmac, sand and snow to crawling over boulders.
Colour touch-screen control for satellite navigation, Personal Telephone Integration with Bluetooth™, rear DVD entertainment and 4x4 information system where fitted
View models and prices


Enlarge Image Exterior
All around the world, the sophisticated appearance of The Range Rover is both known and respected. The commanding silhouette has a stature and presence, which is unequalled. Design elements for the latest vehicle include new bumpers, grille, headlights and power vents, while the signature split tailgate provides quick, convenient access to the rear.
Go to exterior features


Enlarge Image Interior
The new interior design further extends the renowned calm, quiet and luxury within the spacious, airy cabin. Every model has leather heated seats with driver memory as standard and a front seat cooling system is available on selected models. A wealth of ergonomic enhancements have been made - the gear shift is positioned closer to the driver, an electric park brake provides more space around the centre console and Hill Descent Control, Air suspension, Terrain Response™ and gearbox controls have been conveniently grouped together. Stowage has also been improved with an extra 6 litres of storage space in the interior cabin including a new glove box. As before, the acclaimed Command driving position elevates the driver above traffic for a sense of confidence and ease that is without equal.
Go to interior features


Enlarge Image The Range Rover Supercharged
Utilising a V8 supercharged engine, this vehicle makes outstanding use of its effortless power to deliver a supreme drive of quality and refinement. This is the ultimate Range Rover with distinctive design cues including a unique mesh-design front grille and power vents, and unique 20 inch alloy wheels.


Enlarge Image Specifications
From engine performance to interior luxury and comprehensive options available, The Range Rover possesses first class specifications in every sector. All its impressive facts and figures are available to view here in one convenient place.


Enlarge Image Engines and driving quality
The Range Rover has the consummate line-up of the most sophisticated, most complete luxury 4x4s in the world. For the first time ever, it is an all-V8, all-Air suspension, all-six-speed automatic transmission line-up. The new supremely quiet Range Rover TDV8 is the most potent, refined diesel-powered Range Rover ever and joins the existing V8 supercharged petrol engine.
Learn more about engines and driving quality


Enlarge Image Driving technology

No other vehicle has the same breadth of capability. Smooth ride, effortless handling and supreme performance ensure that The Range Rover is effortless on-road and legendary off-road. A wealth of driving technologies put superb command at your fingertips. Naturally, the highlight is Land Rover´s acclaimed Terrain Response™, which readily makes everything from cruising on tarmac, to driving over deep ruts, grass, snow, mud or sand, smooth and unruffled.
Go to driving technology features

[La luca]

The Range Rover is a contemporary evolution of a world-renowned design classic. It has a refined and sophisticated presence that´s unmistakeable: the unique silhouette, floating roof and clamshell bonnet with castellations. The Range Rover Supercharged is further distinguished by exclusive power vents and a unique diamond mesh design grille. All derivatives feature distinctive power vents, grille, and stylish headlights while a split tailgate design gives quick, convenient access to the rear. As with all Land Rover vehicles, The Range Rover is designed to drive through 45-degree gradients and traverse 35-degree side slopes, as well as wade through water 700mm deep.
Enlarge Image Distinctive grille
A light and contemporary finish distinguishes the updated three-bar grille. On The Range Rover Supercharged, a Platinum finish grille with a unique vented diamond mesh design allows for greater air-intake, maximising performance and capability of the Supercharged 4.2 litre 396bhp V8 engine.
Go to front grille feature demonstration


Enlarge Image Contemporary bumpers
Wider and more integrated into the front of the vehicle, re-designed front bumpers provide greater emphasis of The Range Rover´s striking presence.


Enlarge Image Bi-xenon Adaptive headlights
The Bi-xenon Headlight System ensures effortless night-time driving with powerful Bi-xenon beams that provide a whiter light and exceptional illumination. An additional cornering lamp emits light at low speed when the indicator is switched on, illuminating the area about to be turned into, particularly useful when turning into a dark driveway from a well-lit road.. The Vogue SE is fitted with adaptive BiXenon lights. As the vehicle´s steering direction and pitch change, so the headlights move – left, right, up or down – always pointing in the precise direction the driver wants to go.
Go to bi-xenon adaptive headlights feature demonstration


Enlarge Image Side power vents

Unique to The Range Rover Supercharged, side power vents are dramatically enhanced with a Platinum finish mesh and Brunel surround to further improve airflow. Turbodiesel vehicles have been updated from a 2-vent to 3-vent configuration, which retain the sophisticated Brunel finish.

Go to power vents feature demonstration


Enlarge Image Alloy wheels

Fitted with all-terrain tyres, The Range Rover´s alloy wheels are as effective and durable as they are attractive. A range of designs are available as options, from an 19 inch 5-spoke to a 20 inch 7-spoke design on the Supercharged derivative. For the new TDV8 derivative, 19 inch wheels are standard, with a 20 inch wheel and tyre option also available.


Enlarge Image Split tailgate
Practicality, simplicity and ease of access are the benefits of The Range Rover´s distinctive and stylish split tailgate. Its split design ensures easy operation and allows convenient access to the upper load space.


Enlarge Image Powerfold mirrors
The Range Rover features powerfolding side mirrors with approach lights that illuminate the area outside the doors as occupants leave the vehicle. Electrochromatic mirrors are optional on all derivatives. Other mirror features include bluetinting, memory function and automatic adjustment when reverse is selected to aid parking. (Powerfolding mirrors and approach lights are optional on The Range Rover SE, standard on all other vehicles.)

[Audi most unreliable car eve eve eve eve eve eve!!!!!]

I bought a Q7 3 months ago experienced 36 problems:

1. After 10km rear propshaft failed R6000
2. 1000km gearbox R40000
3. Sat navigation failed 3000km R4000

sold the "thing" last week getting my Disco 3 in 1 week!

[Landy diver]

This website is so short sighted and petty. I have had my landrover for 10 years and it has broken how many times??? just once with a flat battery. Maybe this coudl be attributed to landrover too.
I understand there are problems. but I have two friends wiht disco threes who have had absolutely no problems. From my point of view my work collegues audi just needed 1500 pounds of fixing and a VW a guy at the garage had had to have a new ECU and other parts worth 2.2K all cars have problems experiences are different and customer support sometimes horrendous but is all this worth it?? If you dont like it get your money back and buy another wast of cash that will possibly be equally as bad but dont put down one of the best 4x4 manufacturers on the market being run by another company. I dont have a lot of money and could never afford a disco three if you have money to burn on one your better off than me I have found I can fix most landrovers at half the cost of foreign equivelants just because the parts are cheap and they are easy to work on. So many people like them that the internet and magazines hold so much information other cars couldnt compete. They are one of the only companies still going in the UK with UK vehicles and I think much as they have a long way to go they are the best product for what they do. I think the new vehicles are too gadgety for my liking and cost to much but thats my point of view when I use them for utility vehicles. I have helped fix new mercedes fords, mitsubishis Toyotas and audi's. Give Landrover a break. your vendetta is not well founded...

[gringle]

I've had a number of Discovery 3's now. The simple fact seems to be that there were a number of unreliable vehicles in 2005 (mainly due to trying to mate the Ford electronics with a BMW engine).
The 2006 and the 2007 model I now have are 100% reliable. But at the end of the day, all modern cars are complex vehicles and no matter which marque you own, there will always be the odd one that is manufactured badly.
Of course this is why you have a dealer network to look after you - and some dealers are better than others.
I'd fully recommend the Discovery 3, and personally found the Q7 to be "cheap" and lacking poise. But you should test drive all the 4x4 contenders and choose the one you like best, you have to live with it on a daily basis - not me! :)

[Richard]

Hi, Just came across this website and, although technically I suppose I am adding to its triviality of this site, I thought I had to just say something. I do think you are being somewhat petty ol' fella.
Admittedly, I wouldn't have been too chuffed either, had I had so many things go wrong, however to think that German cars are as superiorly built as you are suggesting is a bit naive to say the least! I think you might actually find they are some of the least reliable nowadays. As to building cars in America, having seen the quality that comes out of there,I think I'd rather buy a car built by a blind, one armed monkey in the dark!

I have had 2 Range Rovers over the last 7 years, one a 3.9 Classic and the other a 4.6 P38. Admittedly the P38 went up in flames earlier this year, but up to that point it was totally reliable, apart from the 'odd' electrical issues! The classic has done 175k miles, and has been running with a head gasket issue now for over 40k miles. All I do is fill the coolant up every now and again, but the thing just keeps running; one day i'll get round to sorting it out....

I am now looking for a replacement for theh P38. My head says Toyota LandCruiser (and certainly not any of that Jeep tosh), but my heart says Land Rover, which I think is the bottom line in this argument really. That is, if you like them then stick to them and enjoy them, and accept their odd failing, otherwise just go get your Audi Q7, stay on the tarmac and be happy with that, and keep stressing about scratching your paintwork whilst I'm stuffing my Rangie through the hedge backwards on my way home whilst you're stuck in that traffic jam. At least you'll have lots of nobs and other electrical triviality to keep you entertained whilst you sit there! :-)

[Dave]

Adrian,

Reading your blog has made me laugh out loud and completely confused. Like a few of your other bloggers i have a Q7 and love it apart from the fact that its been in the dealership for repairs 4 times in 7 months. Like you this has been enough for me to look for replacement and couple of friends positive experiences of the disco 3 has lead me to a Land Rover dealers door. After reading this blog i'm not sure what to do - Catch the train may be!!

Incidently, my father in law worked in Munich for BMW a few years ago and he cant understand why German engineering is held in such high percieved standing. The reality is that quality is poor in the industry as a whole but customer service is much much better in some franchises than others, equals a higher percieved quality. Land Rover - take note!!

Land Rover deserves the disgraceful treatment it receives, simply because of its arrogance and trying to live by their past glories that have been acclaimed prior to its challengers appeared from Japan and other countries. My background is international development that takes me around the world, especially in all of Africa and Central Asia. Hence, when it comes to transportation, I have 1st hand experience in dealing with vehicles. I had long given up on Land Rovers and have been investing on Toyota Land Cruisers, Nissan Patrols and the like that are considered as heavy duty vehicles of the same class as LR. Japanese have mastered in latest technology as well as in durability when it come to off road vehicles that are dependable. In remote Africa, most times life depends on your vehicle you travel in and its strength to withstand the arduous terrain. Also the comfort it provides on long hauls is very important.

Going by information at the time, Land Rover was under a new management. BMW supposed to have turned it around and therefore the overall quality. In 1999 / 2000 I thought of giving a try on LR and imported a Discovery II powered by a 5 cyl Diesel. This was in addition to my Land Cruiser. My experience of the discovery has been nightmarish. Once it quit on me in the middle of nowhere in the late evening hours that led us stranded without any help until the next day. Rest of my journey was by a bush plane to the capital city. Just imagine what a LR dealership in war torn Sierra Leone could have offered that a fully-fledged LR agent in UK couldn’t have resolved with all the facilities they enjoy. I think the Germans realized exactly when to let it go and Ford is stuck with the lemons. My Discovery was still at the local LR agents the time I left – a one whole year and more. Brits have no idea what it takes to build a competitive vehicle. It is sad in deed.

[Tony]

I vote all you folks who want foreign cars leave the country now and don't come back...our industry is failing due to the bad press you all generate through blogs such as this. We will end up a third world country and you will be out of work and it will be your own fault. I have owned land rovers for 20 years and they have been faultless.

[zof]

Juste a quick note, Toyota as a factory in UK and is acheiving the best reliability of all the cars sold in europe, so I think it's a not a brit problem, but a land rover problem you had. If only BMW had retain property of Land Rover...

(I'm not brit)

I am a transport design student and a long time Land Rover owner. The underlying factor is that you dont buy a first generation build car it is just the wrong thing to do. You always wait 6months after the release date. Also slagging off a brand just shows how petty you really are and how much time you really have on your hands. Get a job and sort your mid life ordeal out.

[Chris Morel]

You didn't say if you proved whether or not your backberry device was the cause and judging by the number on the roads and peoples opinions i hear that seem to show extremely little problems with the LR3 surely it is extremely possible that it was a problem caused by you personally but not nessarly your fault. The parking sensor uses a form of radiation (I hope a lower frequency one) but i dunno exactly which form and it could be perfectly possible that your blackberry device could be giving off the same form of radiation e.g infra red or microwves.

Your answer will be of intrest to me.

Chris

(evoman@gmail.com)

[pepp]

ok, so lets get this straight, first you have a few land rover 3 give up on you, so you are on a personal battle against all the land rovers ever built. i just want to ask, how come you want a land rover first, but then settle for a audi lame excuse for a 4x4, its basically an estate with bigger wheels. so what did you need a land rover for?? chelsea tractor perhaps? secondly, if you live in devon, which i doupt by the sounds of it, youd know that the land rover defenders, not the posh LR3 status symbols, last what ever you do to them, and the series one or twos are still doing the work needed. also i know someone in the national trust, a warden on one of the estates, and she was descusted when the trust even considered to change thier contract from land rover to toyota, or some over companu, as the others she tested couldnt do the job of a land rover, and did not last off road at all, for example, a land rover defender could run down even small trees and not make a dent, the others failed to control properly off road.
So in conclusion, if you had ever driven a car off road, i think you would choose a land rover over your poor excuse for a 4x4. I bet all you wanted that LR3 for anyway was a status symbol, got a family so you think you need a big car, why not a land rover...yea, hasnt been desgined for another purpose, such as going off road.....

[pepp]

i thought id put this link in for your benefit, it shows what a LR3 was built to do:
http://www.ajeepthing.com/images/land-rover-discovery-3.jpg

trust me, if you lived in devon, you would get so annoyed with people buying 4x4s for no other reason that status symbols.

[Disco Dog]

I don't mean to be rude... You should really only be considering a car as big as you need. If you need a large car that can go off road, then you look at 4x4s. If you need something with 7 seats and are concerned about passenger safety and not offroad ability you by a volvo x90 or q7. The lower the weight of the car, the more able you are to avoid an accident rather than having to rely on the safety features of the car.

As someone that owns a Disco 3 and have had to recover a q7 from a remote location in outback australia with its owner genuinely surprised that his '4x4' was shaken to pieces by the corrugations, I can honestly tell you that the crossover vehicles are good for dirt roads and the beach, not the real stuff.

It's horses for courses. I too have had a handbrake problem and lament the inclusion of an electronic handbrake. However, this car goes places that other 4x4s simply can't. I've gone further in mud and on rocks with a pair of all terrain tyres than my friends have in modified rigs with 35" crawlers.

Make no mistake, this is a seriously capable machine, if you are just going to drive it around town, you don't need one. Consider buying a fully optioned one so that I can buy it second hand in a few years with no hard work done in it when you feel the need to change your look.

[rune]

Do you drive off-road? If not, buy your Q7 which is just a stylised car. If you are considering one, you don't know anything about off-road use and really don't need a true off-road vehicle.

If you do drive off-road, you will know that Land Rover is one of the big players in this field and these vehicles are incredible tools.

If all you do is the school run, ditch it and buy something sensible and stop whinging.

If you are using it as it was designed accept that the best technology sometimes has teething problems and learn to love your vehicle as an enthusiast. It's a tool that can get you anywhere but requires your attention and maintainence to do so.

[zbjelirkzj]

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