No isolated incident: Disco 3 is a failure and I am throwing it away

Until now, I have tried to be measured in my criticism of Land Rover. Now I am pushed over the edge.

So after months of campaigning for Land Rover to take me seriously about the defects in my first Discovery 3 and to agree to replace the first build model with a second build (at considerable cost to me), I took delivery of the car a week ago and the same thing has happened with only 432 miles on clock - electronic melt down!

Check out my account of the original electronic park brake failure which led to the total immobilisation of my first Discovery and how it took Land Rover 3 weeks to rectify it- its happened again!

Well the photograph above evidences that the new vehicle with only 430 miles on the clock has developed exactly the same problem – it also develops engine management faults. It hasn’t completely immobilised itself yet but we left it in the driveway in London when leaving to go away for the weekend, once-again taking our trustee old P Reg Mercedes Estate with 100,000 miles on the clock. I can’t trust the Disco ever again, my wife has 6 weeks to go until our baby arrives and being stuck on the road in the middle of nowhere with our dog and a 7.5 month pregnant wife doesn’t appeal to me - even more so because Land Rover Assist cannot be trusted to organise their way out of a paper bag.

I also received a list of problems from another Discovery 3 owner who is trying to return his car with 500 miles on the clock. The list of faults could be a carbon copy account of the problems I have experienced. I am busy getting permission from him to publish the letter - so will attach it as soon as I have received it.

I have had a repeated experience with two cars – there are other people out there whose experiences echo mine – this is enough of a pattern for me to decide, with regret, on the following action:

I will be depositing the car at Stratstone’s premises on Monday in return for a full refund of the purchase price.

Can anyone suggest what I should spend the £45k refund on - maybe the Volvo XC90, the BMW X5, the Mercedes ML or the Volkswagen Touareg- Take my Poll please.

By the way, Jeremy Clarkson, maybe you should reconsider your Land Rover vote of confidence.

I will text Mike Mulholland from Land Rover now and ensure he reads this post as the past 4 months have been a battle... let the war begin.... I look forward to hearing from him.

Comments

[Mike Cunningham]

Checking on the voting for a replacement seems to give a big vote for the volvo. My son was not so impressed, however, as he reckons it's a bit short on one or two areas of comfort and fittings, but again that's just one man's view!
Why didn't you go for the 'return and demand money back as not fit for purpose' route? You're entitled under the law, and the if you've kept a log of the problems, the sales people and Land Rover don't have a leg to stand on!

Best of luck!

[Dave Taylor]

We have a Volvo XC90 which we like well enough. In fact, until we took delivery on our Toyota Prius, which I believe is one of the best engineered and most well-thought-out cars on the market, we thought the Volvo was terrific. It's still a good car and handles well in inclement weather, but I have to say that I'd skip the GPS navigational system: it's bloody hard to use, in our experience.

[Peter Spence]

Try the Jeep Grand Cherokee - wonderfully comfortable and never breaks down.

[Andrew Lark]

Lexus RX300 mate. Can't go wrong. Even better, Lexus RX300h. Stunning car. Isn't it bizzare how European brands are increasingly coming to stand for poor quality. They are quickly getting to where US brands were years ago - but playing catch-up in this context stinks.

[kat]

1957 chevy bel air convertable is my vote.

[Anne]

What about a Skoda?

[Dennis Howlett]

Even better if the video is date and time-stamped. That combined with a pic or two of your invoice from the dealer + a pic of your cleared cheque for the extra you paid ought to get their attention - BIG TIME! Good luck sir!

[Dennis Howlett]

Another idea - why not offer Landrover the chance to watch a video of your driving the car to a public refuse site...let's get creative here...!!

[Jackie Danicki]

Top Gear would be mad not to do a segment on you.

[dearieme]

Our Disco 1 is getting old: we are considering replacing it next Spring with a young second-hand Disco 2 (it'd be one of the last made) or Volvo XC 90. Any advice, folks? (PS we sat in a Lexus once: crap - not enough head room, and the salesman swore that he had the seat set as low as poss.)

[adrian]

Thanks to all that have posted advice on the replacement - all interesting but I fear (in spite of the trauma)I am still a Land Rover Man and want the electronics problems to disappear.

Dearieme - I drove a late build Disco 2 and never had one stitch of trouble - so wouldn't hesitate recommending it.

[dearieme]

adrian: thanks for the tip.

[Steve]

Perhaps you have already covered this already , but can you summarise just why you love the Disco 3 so much (excepting electronic shennanigans)? Is it the ride height, space, comfort, insulation from outside world, engine, gadgets (well, promised ones)? All of these factors? I'm just curious to know...

[Terry Strachan]

I am a resident in Natal, South Africa and have only driven Landrovers since my days as a student in the early 1970's. Am now on my 10th - a Discovery TDV6HSE - and in 35 years have never experienced any problem of cosequence (notwithstading the fact that a good 20% of my mileage is on sand roads ranging from barely acceptable to appalling)

My only criticism relates to the foolish location and lack of water proofing of vital electrics in the latest Dicoveries and Defenders.

[Gordon]

I have owned four Discos, three were Tdi300 all autos, the first one leaked water, the second was a replacement by the factory at some cost to me, this one was the best one.
The third one was terrible, noisy torque converter, and other noises! also oil leaks.
The fourth one a Td5 manual (couldn't chance another 4 speed auto, because all test drives highlighted noisey torque coverters( mainly due to lock-in speeds being to high) on ZF gearboxes)
This Td5 had numerous oil leaks, and also was the only Disco to break down, the fuel pipe came off and the pump unloaded about 12 gallons of diesel fuel somewhere behind me before I ran out of fuel, and had to call for assistance.
I have had a Td4 Freelander for over two years with no problems, but would like a Disco 3 Tdv6, but I am frightened of what I read here, I don't want to buy a load of hassle, has anybody been happy with the Disco 3 ?

[Shakty]

Well,I"m not try Disco3 yet.
but my experience with Disco2 TD5,was fine.i drive it,about 1023 kilometer.in the deep jungle of west Java,indonesia.except the lack of power,nothing wrong with this landie.(i use it in the heavy trail,such deep mud,water crossing,sand etc)
so I BELIEVE IN LANDIES,and believe the next generation of disco,should be better toy's!!!!

[Jon Wornham]

Interesting comments, I have a very new Disco 3 TDV6 and have a regular 'Engine System Fault' caption, with associated loss of performance. Dealer has been very helpful and Land Rover say it needs a new turbocharger - but not available for 3 weeks. A workmate also had same car at same time - with same problem. He returned the car and is promised a new one, in January!

[CY]

Nonsense -

Electrical difficulties aside, there is nothing that can possibly come close to the all round excellence and ability of the Land Rover Discovery 3.
The Q7 may be a good car, it may well be a great car but it'll never be a match for a Discovery.

I'm sorry for you're loss.

[Joel Dorfan]

I am totally amazed (but not surprised) by all of the trouble posted here.
One would have thought that with all the negative publicity of the Disco II and previous models, that an asserted effort would have been made to ensure the reliability of the Disco 3.

I guess I was wrong!!

Have a look at

www.worst4x4.freeservers.com

sound familiar?

Like the writer of this article I still continue to get complaints from all over the world.

The latest US reliability survey has not one but two Land Rover products (Disco 3 and Range Rover) amongst the worst in reliability.

When will LR get it right?

[Jon Wornham]

Re the 'Engine System Fault' problem I had - dealer has now replaced the turbo with another (alternate part number) one and all seems OK now.

[Mark D.Mayhew]

Whilst I have had a few problems with my vehicle, I have found both the dealer and Land Rover have been second to none in their dealing with me and the vehicle. The fault has been rectified, and the car I feel having driven a number of 4x4's is the best.

[Tim Humphreys]

I have had my Disco 3 TD SE from November 2004 and have now clocked up 39,000 miles averaging around 25 mpg. Overall impression, superbly comfortable quiet long distance cruiser, a bit of a handful on the very twisty bits but what do I expect from a 4x4. Only fault so far has been a faulty pump for the air suspension, fixed promptly on warranty. Services have been reasonably priced, lower than previous models and other equivalent vehicles. I was disappointed to need brake pads and discs at 34k, how does that compare with other owners?

[DG]

How come you continually remove any posts that contradict your view - You do not permit a balanced opinion - what are you frightened of ?????

[Rod]

I'm sure there are others,but the only 300+ thousand mile SUV that I have seen as of late is my Cousins Jeep Cherokee. No hassels at all. But we are going to buy an LR3.

[Harvey Amlet]

I would suggest that if you want to win some credibility for your story you need to stop deleting those more positive or balanced comments about the LR3. There are usually two sides to any story.

Lets see how long this post sticks!

[microbugs]

I have a Discovery II, 2000. I have had nothad problems with the vehicle and the dealership has been great with routine maintenance. My air suspension had to be replaced at 75,0000 miles, but was covered by my extended warrenty. I was told that the air suspension only lasts for @ 70, 000 miles and can be replaced with a traditional spring suspension at a lower cost if you do not have the warrenty. So new buyers, just remember to find out how long some of the equipment is designed to last and buy the extended warrenty if you are keeping the car beyond 70,000 miles.

[Rob Laidlaw]

I found your blog while looking for the models of phones for which LR have phone cradles available for our Range Rover Sport and had a quick read, it seems you have been more than a bit unfortunate with your Discovery3 to say the least along with a few others, I am wondering whether there is any correlation on build dates of these vehicles and that there was a possibility of a batch of faulty looms or component supplied to Landrover. We have had our Sport since Sept 1st 2005 and have had no problems with it whatsoever (touching my wooden desk as I type) although a very good friend of ours bought a Discovery3 a month or so prior to that date and had electrical problems on the suspension side of the vehicle, our dealer Hunters of Southampton took it in to look at it and gave him a Sport as a courtesy car while they found the problem, they changed a loom and everything was fine for a while after which the fault returned, Disco went back in again and this time Hunters called in Landrovers technicians from Solihull who eventually also failed to sort it out, credit to Hunters though they swapped the vehicle over for a brand new one and has had no problems since, I forgot to ask Dave Churchill our salesman what happened to the original one though.

As you rightly said both the Discovery3 and Range Rover Sport share the same chassis, the Sport has 125mm cut off it as it does not have seven seats, other than that they are built on exactly the same lines at Solihull and the operators just select the parts they need for which ever vehicle is next in line while doors etc are taken off at one end, trimmed up and sequenced back to its vehicle the other.

I also noticed one of your questions about the plant being moved to the U.S, having worked for Ford Motor Company at the Transit factory I can tell you that the threat of moving LR to the U.S is more to do with working practices at Solihull than quality, the last I heard they were threatening to move part of it to Merseyside with the X-type Jaguar and possibly some of it to Southampton for when the Transit is discontinued there sometime in the next few years. I believe they may do that, I don't believe they will move it to the U.S because although the U.S is their biggest customer I think the reason for that is the kudos of owning a Range Rover built in the UK.

While I am at it, don't think that just because a vehicle is built in Germany or anywhere else it's going to be better built than a vehicle built in the UK, (the Germans started that rumour to help safeguard their jobs and mostly but not always it works). on my travels I have actually seen more than my fair share of BMW X5's Porsche Cayenne's, Volkswagen Touerag's etc broken down at the side of motorways and only one Discovery3, I have never seen any of the former off road ever.

One last tip, never buy any new vehicle within its first year of production, or at least wait until the plant building it has had its summer shutdown July/August as this is when they tend sort out any final problems they may have had on launch, let someone else have them.
Good luck with your new car.
Rob.

[steve]

I agree with the last comment. I never buy anything new - for the first year, and every time I have broken that rule I have got stung. That's just how technology is - test it till you are blue - then give it to joe public who will devise numerous clever schemes to eventually break every last bit of it, that can be broken

[Nick Childs]

Hmm!
It's very interesting to read all these troubled accounts. I have a Diso 3 purchased 01:05.
I have experienced many similar faults to other contributors to this blog. The steering knocks, front end flutters or vibrates to a light touch and I have also experienced excessive tyre wear and have replaced the front tyres after only 20K miles. LandRover would own up to no responsibilitly here even though I had them check front end alignment at 7K miles because of the knock and vibration.(They assured me that the alignment was correct and suggested that I was unduly worried).When I pointed them to the excessive wear at 20K (Front tyres were no longer legal and the vehicle was challenging to control in wet weather) they told me I must have hit a big bump.
In cold weather many management system warning lights come on. If I switch off and restart the vehicle then everything appears to be O.K. so I assume it is a matter of re-booting the electronics? (Informed input from Landrover might be useful here but so far they don't appear ready to own up to anything). The park brake binds. Landrover have fixed it. The park brake still binds. At approx 22K miles I have a new problem which has just surfaced - "Engine Management System Fault" accompanied by a significant loss of power until the vehicle is restarted. I haven't had a problem with the suspension yet so I consider myself lucky on that count.
I like my Disco 3. It's a pedigree animal and I was very glad when it came on the market. I have had a lot of 4x4 family utility vehicles including Jeep Grand cherokee, Defender 90 V8, Ford Bronco, Chevy 4x4 extended cab, jeep wrangler 4.0, Defender 90 County, Audi Allroad 2.5 TDI and TD5 Disco 2. With these vehicles I never had the list of manufacturers defects that are associated with the Disco 3. For the most part I never had any defects. It concerns me that Landrover does not want to own the reputation for excellence that this vehicle deserves. It smacks of Leyland in the 70's. People will not keep buying defective brands.
I would like it if Landrover contacted me to ask me how they could put things right.

[John Pitcher]

Nick,
I test drove a V8 D3 today and it had a steering vibration that was explained as a wheel imbalance, which on a brand new, unregistered car sounded unlikely. I then drove a TDV6 which had no vibration and lighter feeling steering, so I wonder whether the problem you described is common even on new D3's? Now I can't decide whether to go for the D3 or choose a Toyota Landcruiser Amazon instead which is a paragon of reliability.

[Jane]

Collected new Discovery 3 yesterday with 9 miles on the clock. Went to show some friends that wanted to have a look,(20 miles on the clock) take them round the block. Couldn't released parkbrake! No warning messages, no warning lights on the dash. My husband was in the drivers seat, tried several times, rang the dealer who suggested we call Land Rover Assistance. They came out dragged it on to a truck to take it back to the dealer. I am hoping that when we get there today, my husband looks an idiot!

How much to buy this site

[Rene Koesler]

I've had an 05 LR3 HSE for 10 months and 11250 miles and have had NO PROBLEMS whatsoever..BEST vehicle this far I've ever owned (out of 34).

[mark gill]

Took delivery of LR 3 V6TDI in Oct 2005, by Jan 2006 LR UK had to recover the vehicle due to:
Failed suspension electronics
Failed parking brake
Failed Special Modes
Failed Hill decent
Faulty parking sensors
V. Strong fuel smell in cabin at all times
IN Dec 2005 all wiring loom was replaced but all(and more) faults came back.
Dealer could not fix it (even by bringing in tech from LR HQ)
I asked for money back, LR HQ and dealer spent 2 months either ignoring me or stalling. Would not agree to refund( dealeer said it wasLR HQ who refuesed refund even though dealer were brill and supported the case fully) but have agreed to give us a new 06 Discovery, which we should get on Friday. They have agreed to upgrade it to auto box for free as a friend told me less problems with auto box than with manual. But after finding this blog site I am a little bit ( !!!!) woriied about the next cars reliability.
I agree with many of the comments, the Doscovery 3 is a brilliant vehicle but with the build reliability of a kinder toy! PS- tech at landrover as much as admitted to me the problems we have had are widespread and , he said, are due to "on start up ECU asks all electronic components (suspension etc)for status report, these components do not reply fast enough so ECU thinks there is a problem , thats why many of fault messages go away if turn vehicle off and then back on"--hmmm, that may be ok to do with your PC when it crashes but then your pc does nto have to be trusted to carry you down the M6 at 70 mph!!!!
Wish us luck with our new car.

[BCP]

D3 is an excellent multi role vehicle. There is nothing else out there to compare if you need a seven seat go anywhere vehicle.

[Richard]

Very worrying all this. We were considering buying a D3, but want something reliable and strong to keep long term; say 10 years. Can you imagine what sort of state the D3 electronics will be in at even 5 or 6 years? If the ECU is getting confused and the various components are breaking with this frequency now, these motors will be a basket case in the future. No way. Toyota Landcruiser for us.

[CY Sydney Oz D3HSEV8]

D3 is one great car except when you (try to) drive it. My wife and I purchased a D3 HSE V8 with just about every option these things come with. I was well aware of LR problems over the years and done a lot of reading about the D3 , but never found this site until it was too late!

About 1-2 weeks after purchase , my wife complained about various electronic failures and warning lights. I didnt think much of them at first , until it became a regular thing , right to the point where this thing would shut down without warning and leave you stranded!! After contacting our dealer in Sydney , we were fed "the proverbial" and palmed off.

This went on for a few more weeks until one day when my wife was stranded for almost 1 hour (the ECU would not re-boot!) with 2 kids in the car , we had enough! Our dealer agreed to look at the car. After doing so , they put it down to "a flat battery"!!!

What a load of crock! Another week latter , same problem , the car was like a Christmas tree with all the warning lights on a daily basis and regularly shutting down. Finally our dealer took us more seriously after we told them that we had caught on (thats when I found this site) and agreed to have a more serious go at solving the problem.

Dealer took the car in for 1 week and from what they tell us , changed the wiring loom and de-bugged the problem? Since getting it back (2 weeks now) it seems to be ok. Hopefully it will stay that way!

I must say though , problems aside , this is the most amazing car money can buy (fully optioned). We looked around after experiencing the problems we had , at getting rid of the D3 and going with an alternative 4x4. For reliability you cannot beat Toyota / Lexus! For shear luxury , function , flexibility and off road ability , you cannot beat the D3.

We are hoping this time our D3 is cured! Giving it one more chance , if it plays up again it looks like we will be at the Toyota dealer.

[Garage lad]

Just remember, every dog has its day, every machine has its problems. Unhappy owners tend make the most noise and the other happy ones jus carry on as if nothing has happened!

[David]

It a shame when a reputable company can knowingly manufacture cars with defects and willingly place them in show rooms floors for consumers to buy; in order to meet manufactures build quotas set my profit shareholders. Prior to Ford acquisition of Land Rover, an average of 48K units were being imported to the US. Hens the high demand VS. the supply. This meant your Rover held its value. Ford’s plan is double importation from 48K units per year to over 100K. Take in consideration the Ford F150 Truck. Last year 188K trucks were sold world wide. (That only one type of vehicle folks.) By taking the Name “Land Rover”, Fords business plan is to bank on the Land Rover badge counting you won’t notice the Ford Explorer underneath.

All manufactures have insurance against such recall… suck it up. Like any Love Affair, the thrill of Land Rover is gone. You should move on to a better, younger and more dependable car.

[Moshe]

I am a tour guid in the Israely deserts.
I am on Land rovers for past 30 years.
It is the BEST 4x4 - build for hard work.
I had difender 110 1979 - working in the SINI desert carring 9 people with gear for 5 days - only on dirt hard road - NEVER had problems. Later Desco 200 TDI (Not 300 TDI...)Great car - NO Problems.

Today I have Difender 110 TD5 with 350,000 KM - again working in very hard condetions - GREAT car.
I wanted to buy a new Disco3 - after seeng this site - I will think again...

[casey]

Feel sorry for ya . Im a proud ownder of my java black disco 2003 model till date no probs and with its v8 power its never let me down.

Ive had the admiring looks from the modern day suv owners which seem less rugged and more sissy (roundish, half car half suvish in confused territory,)Inifinit fx is wrought with problems, so is bmw 's 7 series cars, even the 5 series, ford and GM , hyundais hondas acuras all going though some bad phase or the other . even jeeps..

though i dont absolve the landrover company of what crappy vehicles they gave u but all 4 vehicles having the same defect (seems to me that they were a part of the defective manufacturing line or of the same batch) else what are the odds and seems so out of this world type experience.

when i had given my disco for servicing they lent a LR3 to carryon my day with it felt too car like and delicate certainly not the terrain tamer which disco is. cmon ud be afraid to take this vehicle to the shoulder of the freeway let alone high boulders and dirt.

but inspite of that its anyday better than the audis and infinits which are just city vehicles and a serious offroader should feel tame in any of those

[HappydaysAgain]

I have just purchased a S Type Jaguar 2.7D. It shares the same engine with LandRover. After six weeks and 2,556 miles it has broken down. Both turbochargers apparently need replacing, which Stratstone claim will take 10 days due to the high demand for LR's which mean Jaguar cannot get the relevant parts. I feel neither Jaguar nor Stratstone care. It's so frustrating, especially as I had wanted a Jag for ages. I now wish I had bought a Lexus.

[nick]

okay stik with the land rover buy a new one if you read more about it you will no why it has those problems. if you dont want to buy another one go and buy a mercedes-benz G wagon not the one that is all ugly and shit buy the one that is kinda boxy if not. go out and buy a range rover sport supercharger i have 2 of them there the best cars to have.

[osman maietta]

after working hard all my life i could eventually afford to buy a diso 3 in october o5 from day one i had all sorts of problems,rattle in dash,heavy fuel consumption, no were near the figures printed in the brochure!,engine mangement faults,knock in steering,loss of power intermitantly,after several visits to strastones couldnt sort out the problems.they then agreed to exchange this vehicle for another new diso3 the very first day i broke down in less than 24 miles,took it back to be fixed,then it broke down again 100 miles later.now trying to get a refund which stratstone and landrover refuse to do.stratstones and landrover have a serious problems with these cars and are trying to sweep it all under the carpet one the main problems with the engine management is the turbo variable vanes sticking,this why they have now changed turbos and part number i would personaly never ever recomend anybody to landrover again because if you have problems they still deny you your statuory rights of a refund.then you have to take your finace company to court which then causes problems for you legal action so far has taken me six months getting there slowly i am going to keep you all up to date with the court case as i am hoping to set a president with the case.i live in gloucester and every person i have spoken to has the same problems it wouldnt surprise if all the good stories in this webb site are not from landrover themselves. this is a david and golliath senario if anybody wants to contact about any of this you can email me ozmaietta@blueyonder .co.uk for a indepth information. going to every motorshow this year to hand out information leaflets about there problems i feel its my duty to tell potential customers they have made this the worst experience of buying a car ever. stratstones in my opinion are the worst company to deal with.

[Darren]

We Have Just Bought A Disco 3 At The Start Of The Year. I Do Not Know What Ye Are Talking About I Love The Disco 3 Unless The 05 Model Was Bad But The 06 Model Seems To Be Fine. I Live In The West Of Ireland In Co.Clare And I Had To Drive To London To A Funeral And There Was Nothing Wrong With It. A Well I Saw Everybody Complaining About It So I Said i would Say My Bit

[Rudi van der Walt]

All my sympathy to Adrian Melrose. My Disco spent 26 out of 52 weeks at a dealer in South Africa. But we must admit Adrian, we had been warned by many Disco owners before we bought, weren't we?
Recently I am getting a system warning indicating a failty ABS sensor. The dealer says he knows it is not the sensor but it could be the controller. I goes for a while after resetting the controller. They can't find the problem and I am driving without ABS!!

[Nicholas Cross]

Hello All... I am really sorry to hear of all the problems that some of you have had with your LRs.

I know how you feel!!!

2 years ago I bought a New Discovery TD5 HSE with 40000km on the clock.

So far I have had the following parts replaced on it (please remember that I have only had the car for 2 years!!):

Elecric window motor and mechanism
1 Pipe from the radiator
both of the airbags for the air suspention
hydraulic pump for the ACE
Wiring loom in the engine
3 pipes for the ACE
cylinder head gasket

I am sorry but I don't care what LR say... their vehicles are NOT of good enough quality to be on the market.

I am getting rid of my LR as soon as I possibly can!!!

I am going to switch over to JEEP. I hope that their cars are more reliable.

Does anyone know of problems with the Cherokee?

Thanks and good luck to you brave people that are going to stay with LR!!!

[Richard Price]

I bought a brand new LR discovery in July 2006. I noticed a clutch burning smell from day one of the wonership . Initially I put this down to the car just running in. However the smell got worse and 10 days later teh clutch failed completely.

LR newport South wales suggested that they had the right to repair the problem up to three times before offering a replacement. i invited them to quote the relevant part of the legislation on which they rely to support such this claim. I even sent them a a copy of teh act. To date they have replaced the clutch. The act permits me the choice of accepting a repair or replacment. I have elected to ask LR for a replacement new car rather than a repaired new car. Their reponse has been only to advise that the repaired car is awaiting collection. I advised them that I had formally rejected the goods. LR advise that they are consulting with the legal departement. More anon!

[Richard Price]

I bought a brand new LR discovery in July 2006. I noticed a clutch burning smell from day one of the wonership . Initially I put this down to the car just running in. However the smell got worse and 10 days later teh clutch failed completely.

LR newport South wales suggested that they had the right to repair the problem up to three times before offering a replacement. i invited them to quote the relevant part of the legislation on which they rely to support such this claim. I even sent them a a copy of teh act. To date they have replaced the clutch. The act permits me the choice of accepting a repair or replacment. I have elected to ask LR for a replacement new car rather than a repaired new car. Their reponse has been only to advise that the repaired car is awaiting collection. I advised them that I had formally rejected the goods. LR advise that they are consulting with the legal departement. More anon!

[james west]

From the US here, my 06 LR3 with about 4k miles had the steering column "snap" loose the other day, luckily when leaving the curb but with nearly no real pressure from me. I was simply pulling away, little force in any direction seeing as wheels were already turned in departure direction when I parked. The dealer first starts blabbing about the slightly larger tires on the rims, but they do not rub in any height or turn situation so it sounds more like the blame game to me. I'll personally throw a chaor through the showroom window if they in fact try to put this on me at all. In fact, when I had it flatbed trucked back to them, I removed all my belongings of any sort as I decided on the spot to not bring it home again.

I have had a 1996 disco which never left me hanging anywhere, except when I bogged it in mud ;) . I also recently got a 2004 D2 that I just love, more than the LR3 really. It's simple but elegant and robust where it should be considering what it is meant to be. Believe me, I am hooked on bluetooth phone use, AUX audio inout for my ipod, NAV, cool little air suspension gadgetry, etc but at what price in annoyance? For some silly reason, I traded a 2006 Land Cruiser for the LR3 because the cruiser seemed too "plush" without the utilitarian features of the LR3 (flat folding seats "into" floor - very nice design, lots of large nalgene water bottle holders, while driving use of bluetooth dial pad, moon roofs over rear seating areas) BUT, I think I maybe should have stayed in the LC for a while - I didn't read ANY of this stuff or I would have at least given it more thought. I feel silly for what I got myself into now. At least I still have my D1 and D2 to rely on ;)

[joycecho72]

Today I've been talking ab8 DISCO3 with a customer of an official dealer for a few time. They say,we are in italy, that DISCO3 has very little electronic contol and device so it's impossibile to have any inconvenience. The price is ab8 50k euros and many LR web sites in italy agree with those of you negatively impressed.
I have to chose betw TOY LC 5p and DISCO3 but my heart beats 4 LR even many people are regretting.
help me-thanks :-)

[Iain Sample]

I bought my wife a Land Rover Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE in October 2005. She has always wanted one and was so happy when we went to pick up the car. Unfortunately the front of the car was damaged and this was not picked up in the pre delivery inspection and we had to return it later in the day to the dealer who took it to the body shop to be repaired. Later we had problems with the hand brake which would not release first time which the dealer adjusted with no recurrence. The engine management system went into safe running mode on an occasion which cleared once I switched the engine off and restarted the car. Later this fault developed into a full blown breakdown when my wife was taking the children to school and I had to come home to take the car to the dealer under escort from Land Rover Assist, sensors were replaced and errors cleared before a number of upgrades were down loaded onto the car. This fault has not re occured to date. Trim has managed to detach itself as has the number plate at the back and the paint finish is very thin which means that cleaning must be donw with very grat care if the under coat is not to show through. The suspension failed recently resulkting in more updates and a new sensor. Finally the door lock managed to jail my wife this week and the car is returning for more repars and updates - no doubt. I hate this car with a passion it is ugly poor value, unreliable and unpleasant to drive. To give them their due the local dealer in Oxford is splendind and has been on had to supply my wife a vehicle on each occasion and Land Rover Assist have also performed their function admerable. However this car does not meet basic user requirements - get from A to B reliably in safety and comfort. I did not spend £45K to put up with this rubbish. I have a SAAB 9000 CSE which has 124,000 miles on the clock and it has NEVER broken down and ALWAYS starts first time, it cost half what the Land Rover cost new. What fools we were to be duped by that twit Clarkson. Can anyone advise me how to improve this situation?

[SteveH]

There are quiet a few D3 owners with problems here.. I am sure quite a few of them are very genuine complaints..but i suspect that also few are from the opposition, so to speak...:-).
I dont own one yet, thinking of buying one for long distance off road travel. I live in South Africa, I would be extremely worried in travelling 1-2000 km to the Nambian desert and having a catastrophic failure...I would then have to abandon the car in the middle of nowhere, take out water , food and maybe my licensed weapon and treck to the nearest point of civilisation which could be anywhere from a days walk..and if lucky a passing vehicle may give me a lift..and what if I was with my girlfriend..i would have to cope with all the weeping and crying..The vehicle would be left abandoned and it is likely it may not remain in one piece after a toe away truck comes to pick it up the next day...well if I am feeling wealthy and I am not, I would have to call in an SOS helli, and who would pay the Bill...better having to suffer the snkaes and the wild animals and take my chances..On that score, better not think of getting a D3, it is not like getting broken down on the M25 and getting your local dealer to come and rescue you..I could be 1000 km from the nearest dealer...

So why these failures...I personally think these issues that people are having serious trouble with are not design defects but parts and component failure that are not upto spec.
The D3 is a very new model with Air Springs which is a very unusual and advanced technology..it takes few years to sort out all the bugs in the design/manufacturing process just like old bill gates who throws out his windows operating systems to the public to sort out full of bugs, while he is laughing all the way to the bank..
Component failure could mean a tiny little electrical or mechanical component , compressor parts, electronic components or even software that is not built up to spec..the D3 would have alot of these in..and the more , the more a component failure is prone to shut the whole system down...electronic based systems are much more prone to total shutdown then cars that are purely mechanical..
The Japs and the Germans have a low failure rate both for components and the final vehicle because they do alot of qa both on parts and final assembled vehicle..I doubt that LR is testing all the comonents that are comming in from their suppliers. You have to do that , you have to do random checks of all the parts and insist on a very high level of qa from supplies..any supplier who does not meet this high qa has to be chopped and quickly...Now I think that is where the system is breaking down for LR..they havent got the systems and the management inplace like the germans and the japs to check their suppliers components as they come into the factory floor...that is the difference between a german built car and a LR..in the old days of British Leyland when Magi sent in Sir whatever his name was to sort out British Leylands..it seems things have not changed since then..

In summary, the LRD3 is a great design but it seems full of bugs and unsafe for the kind of off track, long distance travel in the middle of nowhere..unless you have a standard contract with the dealer to send a helicopter for you every time you get broken down somewhere...well we all dont have a dad like Mark Thatcher :-)

Seriously, the kind of issues of qa and component failure are NOT going to be fixed overnight..they require a significant change in management attitudes and systems, as well as a clamp down on component suppliers and getting them in line on a very savage and strict qa that say BMW has in place...Is this going to happen in the near future..I doubt it...it requires a revolution and an overall change in management attitude..and with all the happenings in Rover/LR over the last 20 years..it is not going to happen unfortunately as much as I would like this product to be the best in the world that we can all be proud off...basically , i am going to put aside my patriotic feelings and think seriously what will my options be when i am surrrounded in the middle of nowhere by desert and snakes and local bushmen pearing in my window and poking fun at this white man who looks hopelessly lost in his little toy...well grant them they got a hut to go to and I havent...

[Bryan]

Hello
Interesting read from everyone on the site. I can relate to your concerns/problems. We bought our Discovery 3 (LR 3 in the US) in December 2005. Since March of this year, we have had the car in for suspension issues 2 times. The first, we were out of the car 30 days. Drivers side water leak in which the seals were replaced. In twice for wind noise at the drivers side wide, looks to replace seal again and now the Central Junction Box. Found out today that it will be 2-3 weeks before the car is ready. This has all occurred over the last 9 months. We met with the dealership today and are starting the process to return the car, and obtain refund. Guess we will see what happens. Any advice or thoughts from anyone who has gone through the process? How difficult is it for Land Rover to make good?????

[Pieter]

A friend of my is driving a Disco 3 HSE automatic, delivered 01/2005. Car has done 95.000 KM without any problem.

I will buy myself also a Disco 3!!!!!!

I had a Range VM diesel. Everybody said bad things about it. It has covered 495.000 Km without serious problems.

I have a Range p38 covered 220.000 km. Everybody says bad things about and again I didn't noticed any of it.

For me LR's are great cars.

[mark1x]

all land rovers leak, squeek and breakdown. they just cannot build a decent car.

[Clive Penfold]

I have a Disco II ES auto TD5. I bought it in late 2000 from a Dutch dealer via Totalise Eurecar and saved myself £11,000 on the UK price. I have done 63K miles.
I have the following negative observations:

Jiggly ride/roly poly on rough surfaces.
Thirsty - About 23 MPG.
Water leaks into front foot wells though I think I have cured this. Under the vehicle there is a rubber nipple drain thingy on the left hand side of the transmission tunnel. When I tweaked this a lot of water came out.
Leak on radiator. New one £240!
Leak where fuel pipe joins engine.
Rusty marks appearing under paint on door tops.

On the positive side:
Comfy seats.
Good Hi Fi.
Front tyres (Michelin 4X4) have lasted 63K - rear ones will probably last 70K plus.
Tows heavy trailers well.
Looks good - a design classic? unlike the D3 which looks more like a Transit!

Not sure if I would buy a D3 though. They are potentially a very good design and comfy, but, they are technically complex with a lot of electronics. Any problems out of warranty are likely to be expensive to fix and I'm not convinced about their reliability.

[eddie gallimore]

I own A 2000 disc td5. Occasionally
Two lights continually flash on the dash, the car appears to be stuck in third gear . The lights that flash are like two gearwheels (green in colour )The fault clears when the engine is turned off. Any ideas ?Completley baffled Eddie

[Andrew Baker]

I have owned Land Rovers for 20 years now. My most relaible was a series 2a..!!! None have caused any major problems and all have been hugely entertaining to drive. My latest Defender has been to Africa 4 times with me including right down to Niger and has been brilliant, taking staggering punishment and yet always performing perfectly. Build and materials quality is pretty dire it has to be said. My girlfriend owns a P38 Range Rover which is about to be replaced with a Peugeot diesel estate - the service back up at Mantles, her main dealer is appalling. For example, they diagnosed a wheel bearing failure as a failing diff which she paid £800 for. I was convinced it was a wheel bearing but they were adamant. Now I find myself in the lucky position of being able to afford a replacement 4x4. I would not buy a new (they expect you to do the road testing) or secondhand (often abused). I will either have my Defender rebuilt by my local guy who I trust implicitly, using independent specialists I know and trust to rebuild the transmission, or I will buy a used Toyota Land Cruiser Amazon. They are the best for reliability (important in the desert)and all round performance, although lacking style. I have considered a Discovery 3 but these are hugely complex vehicles which look great on paper but sadly British engineering standards mean that running one is a lottery regarding reliability. Buy a simple car with minmal electronic gizmos and proven mechanical prowess. Land Rovers are great designs but the execution is s**t. I love mine but I can't afford the hassle of an unrelaible vehicle.

[Nathan Snir]

I do not know about Land Rover maybe you had a Lemon Car however fro experience stay away from Toyota they are bottomless pit. I have been using them for some time now and more than one model. Forget reliability, forget about proper service forget about quality these are things of the past. Lexus as you know is a dressed up Toyota so you will basically get the same.

[kerry o'connor]

hey guys have a disco 3 tdv6 he, and have towed a caravan over 23,000k's. straight from the show room floor. throught out Australia's outback. not one problem great fuel economy, handling and reliability.
now has 46000k's on clock in just over 8 months and going well.
just thought that i would let you know that there are some good luck stories as well.
prior to this had a p38 range rover and did the same (towing caravan around australia) with the same result - no problems.
seems to me that they need to be used not mollycoddled.

[Martin Suo]

From Sydney Australia.

Bought a Disco3 HSE V8 back in Jan. During past 3 months i experienced 2 accounts of engine shutdown - without any warning. Both happened when reducing speed from 80km/h or so down to 0-10km/h and the engine just lost power completely while gear was still on "D". Had to put gear into "P" then restarted it. Lucky didnt cause any accident. Will take the car back to the dealer and keep you guys posted.

[James]

I bought an '07 model year Land Rover Discovery 3 HSE in December '06, and it is without doubt the most accomplished vehicle I have ever owned.
The ONLY problem I have had is that the blind on the middle sun-roof is a bit loose.
On the standard Pirelli Scorpion tyres it will go ANYWHERE. Terrain Response is a major step forward, as are most of the vehicle's features.
I think that there a some problematic older D3 vehicles out there, and LR electronic patches for the OBD system clear up many faults, but maybe not all owners use systems correctly, or even read hand-books. To run to a Toyota, or even a Jeep, is not the answer - they guys that build these things have bad days too!

[Dave]

Clearly you guys have had some bad experiences with the Disco 3.

But please do not get confused Volvo's, Mercs and Audi's will not go where the disco will they are just not int he same league. I know I am a professional Off Road instructor. If you think those vehicles are better then you should be thinking of being a Prius and saving the planet. 4x4's are not for you!

Sorry

Dave

[S Fearnley]

We took delivery of our new D3 auto last October and it has worked hard on our farm ever since, we have tow started tractors and we often tow a 3.5ton trailer, it is in mud every day of its life. It is the most practical, comforable and powerfull 4x4 that I have ever owned. No problems whatsoever.

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[Rod King]

All these comments make very interesting reading for a newcomer to the Disco3. It appears you either hate it or love it! But I suppose that depends upon what 'day of the week' a car you bought. (For those of us old enough to remember, a Friday car always seemed to have more problems than a Monday car, or was it the other way arround?).
I bought my Disco 3 TDV6 HSE in April and it now has just over 6k on the clock. Only one minor hicup a few days after picking it up which related to the suspension dropping to access mode for no reason at all after about ten minutes. Stop engine, start again and it would last another ten minutes before dropping again. The dealer claimed I had done something unusual with the controls and he may have a point since I am the worlds worst fiddler of gadjets. However twenty minutes with the dealer has completely cured the problem. (I suspect it was one of those software issues).
Since then I have been completely and uterly delighted with the Disco3. It really does go anywhere. Mud, rocks, you name it, and all with standard factory fit road tyres. Motorway driving is also supurb and I can get an average 35mpg out of it doing 65 to 70 mph.
I would recommend that if you intend doing any serious off roading you go on one of the 'Experience' days. They demonstrate (with you driving one of their factory standard cars) just what they can actually do.It then gives you far more confidence with your own vehicle.
Having previously had two Jeep Grand Cherokees, I can honestly say they are not a patch on the Disco3 in terms of ability and quality.

[Hamish]

Has ayone come across Range Rover Sports that hang down on one side even when parked on the flat? Landrover say that a lean of 20mm is OK. Is this safe?

[Mark Stokes]

The truth from a satisfied owner. After 2½ years and 35k miles my Disco 3 TDV6 HSE is proving as faithfull a companion as did it's TD5 and TDI300 predecessors. Other than a couple of electronic glitches (dipping door mirrors and cruise control - both fixed by dealer) it has been faultless and pleasure to own. Unlike some of your correspondants my only decision to make next year is which colour to buy next time, and do I spend the extra for the TDV8 engine if available then. I don't know any Q7 owners, but X5 owners who have travelled in my D3 have been impressed at it's refinement in comparison. I for one will not be going German next time, though I'm sure the Q7 is a very good vehicle (X5 is just too ugly to consider).

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[Keith]

I know you are probably into electronic gizmo's and a sense of comfort but my trusty series 3 never lets me down!

[Jim]

I have a 2001 Discovery TD5 and at the last service noticed oil in the wiring loom from the injectors to the ECU. My extended warranty insurer would not cover the claim for the replacement loom saying it is a fair wear and tear issue and that it is a know defect (at the time of taking out the cover). I do not agree with their reasons. Has anyone else had similar experience in Australia?

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[Gesumebus]

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[Paul Stavropoulos]

interested to know how many of the people who are experiencing problems with their electronics who live, work or pass-by a Police TETRA radio mast set up. They look like two poles about 5ft long fixed high up on a structure or single mast.

[Robert Paterson]

Well, where do I start? Today I have just watched my Nov 05 Disco 3 being loaded onto another tow truck for the THIRD time in under six months!! Out of the last six months my car has been in Sheilds Landrover Glasgow for over Two of these all with the same fault- the suspension malfunctioning and the car undrivable. This is after a new turbo being fitted, the sunroof leaking twice with water running down onto my sat nav and phone system, two replacement washer bottles and numerous pipes being replaced in the coolant system not forgetting the many "software enhancements" when it has been in for routine servicing or the above repairs. Why do Landrover not just admit that they have serious problems with this model (and others)and that these enhancments are another bodged attempt to put right the many problems I along with many others experiance with the car?

On hearing that TATA are interested in buying the Company I considered it very apt as that is what I will be saying TA TA to my car when I eventually get it back this time!!

Any other drivers had similar problems/ Please let me know? my email is robert.paterson@patersondm.com

[Paul Wood]

I have owned my Disco3 2.7S for two years having bought it new in Jan 96. I have now covered 32,000 miles and in that time have had the tyres replaced at 24,000 miles and had new discs and pads at the 30,000 service. I do not count this as excessive as i am generally hard on tyres whatever i drive and nearly every car i have ever taken to a garage has illicited the old "you need new pads and shoes" routine, it's an easy money spinner!
The only faults i have encountered have been a low speed steering knock which was cured with a new lower steering column on warranty, and the drivers door lock will jam intermittently on cold mornings. It can be coaxed into opening but it cures itself once the temparature rises and it is therefore hard to pinpoint the exact fault, but WD40 seems to have cured it at present.

I have had the odd one off niggle such as the audio system stopping briefly and the key failing to start the engine once, but apart from those i am completely happy with the car and have no regrets with it at all. I feel comfortable, relaxed, safe and above all very happy when i'm driving it and i wouldn't choose to transport my family in anything else. I previously owned Chrysler Voyagers from new, and i experienced more trouble with them than i have ever had with the Disco. And German reliability means little to me as my Fiance has owned 3 Mercedes from new over the past 7 years, and they have all suffered some major faults. These ranged from fried and waterlogged electrics through to a rear suspension collapse on an 18 month old C200 Kompressor with only 4000 miles on the clock. My Father has also had 3 VW's recently from Golf's to Passats and i shudder at the money it has cost in repair bills on each of them. They may be reliable but when they go wrong it costs big bucks to put them right.
At the end of the day the people who are satisfied with their purcases are generally the quiet ones, it is those who have cause to complain that are more vocal. I think the amount of horror stories regarding LR have been exagerrated and i am sure there are negative blogs out there for every major product. I've ridden Suzuki's for nearly 25 years and wouldn't touch a Honda because of one bad experience with a 250N. This is ironic as the 250N was one of the most reliable bikes ever built so where is the logic in my hatred for Honda - silly isn't it?
I do actually have one annoying niggle with the Disco, on the early models they "forgot" to put a "lights on" warning light on the dash, frustrating with auto headlights not knowing when they are on or off!!

[john coochey]

You know why Land rovers all have heated rear windows? To keep your hands warm when you are pushing them. Despite the Australian army being forced to buy them in teh past virtually none are sold in Australia which accounts for the majority of world sales of Land Cruisers and Patrols, they are just not reliable enough. This year only twenty five Defenders have been sold Austrlia wide compared with some 1300 Cruisers and 900 patrols. Out here mate if it breaks down you can die

[sarah hamilton]

I am not sure whether I should be happy or sad that I am among such a non exclusive club as "owners not happy with their Discovery".
My car has had a park brake fault probelm twice, problems with door handles not working and a turbo fault that left us stranded on holiday. Now it seems the key does not work and I am unable to get into my car. My colleague thought that this may be due to low battery in the key fob until he realised that it wasn't and that I am now unable to get in and get home tonight from night shift as immobilised. Again I am stranded.
I could understand if I bought a cheap old banger but as you all know these cars aint cheap. Look what you get for your money?!!
Need to change my car and now thinking it will not be another Disco. Daren't keep this one beyond its warranty.