The Truth about the Land Rover Discovery 3

Is this blog influential?

After having been flagged us one of the top 50 blogs impacting brands by the Times, I thought I would post an update today!

I haven't maintained this blog much since Land Rover refunded my money after the second Discovery 3 failed on me. I have left the blog up so that the conversation is maintained. If you want a summary of my whole ordeal please read this post. Feel free to browse the latest comments too. Most contributors to the site have had similar experiences to me: poor product quality, lack of customer service. Others come to the defence of Landrover having had a faultless experience with their Discoveries. Others are doing product research, about to buy a luxury SUV.

I was interviewed by a journalist yesterday who asked me whether I thought this site had impacted Land Rover's sales numbers. By how much I can't say, but there are a few emails I have received that explicitly thank me for keeping this blog up and running as its saved them from being a Land Rover customer. Take this one received in the last fortnight:

I was just about to consider a Range Rover Sport as I had a BMW X5 for a while and was well impressed. I have owned Land Rovers before and I have to say they haven't been a patch on the BMW. I just stumbled on this site (Amongst others) that have done nothing but slate Land Rover and Ford, who are clearly in some Business Trouble... I now know I will be visting the BMW showroom next week for a New X5 and least I know it will also be worth something after three years when I come to change it too! THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME NOT MAKE A BIG MISTAKE! Sorry to those who have, Jon

Its such a pity that my offer (which is still standing) to Land Rover to take over this site as a customer forum hasn't been taken up. I had hoped that they could use this site (which gets thousands of hits a week) to enter into a open and transparent conversation with their customers. All brands and Motor Vehicles have issues, but Land Rover isn't committed to opening a dialogue with their customers. What a pity, because their customers are doing it without them!

JD Powers finds Land Rover Quality bottom of the heap

Here... read this for yourself

An owner sums it up....

One of the latest comments posted by Paul which I though I would feature because it sums up Land Rover's attitude so well:

I am sadly a Range Rover Sport owner but as it is essentially the same vehicle I thought I would add my experience. My vehicle has the same long list of on going issues concerning simple features simply not working and the dealer network failing to find a resolution over many visits. What has astounded me is the manufacturers complete lack of interest. The marketing is very much a "buy into the brand" campaign yet I have never suffered such contempt from any manufacturer. No reponse to correspondence or return telephone calls, just simply refering you to the dealer who is powerless to resolve your issue. I am convinced that their strategy is simply to ignore the customer for long enough and he or she will eventually lose thier tenacity. I am told that the customer service team is a third party resource which makes some sense of their absolute lack of any positive action and misleading comments. My vehicle has suffered unbelievable and clear cut legitimate warrant y issues which LR have simply refused to resolve. It has been simply astonishing. The one thing concerning the ownership experience I look forward to replacing it with a brand that understand that selling vehicle of this value means a modicum of care for their customer and the meaning of the word warranty. How sad.

Another disgruntled customer writes in:

This is such a well written email articulating just how Ford and Land Rover have destroyed a brand with their marketing smoke and mirrors:

Hi,  I have just purchased a new Discovery 3 five door 06 model and after only twelve days of ownership I am experiencing problems.

The vehicle replaces my previous Discovery 2 which suffered no end of problems, but that is history.

I chose the Disco 3 five door, because, being a Helicopter operator, I needed a reliable 4 x 4 that I could carry fire fighting kit in and tow a 2.5 tonne fuel bowser. All of which I have done in a variety of 4 x 4's over many years. The third row of seats were never used in my   Disco 2 over the two and a half years that I owned it from new and after discussion with the dealer, decided that the five seat version would suit me fine.

What I didn't realise was that the five seat Disco 3 has less equipment in than most vans on the market today. It doesn't have an outside temperature display, the clock, set in the centre of the instrument panel is unreadable whilst driving and there is not even a loadspace cover in the rear, leaving tools, luggage etc, totally on view. The handbook supplied, shows every conceivable extra fitted to all models of Disco 3 and it is impossible when reading it to work out exactly what is supplied with the five door version, until of course you realise that in fact virtually no equipment is fitted!

The dealer, Hillendale of Nelson Lanc's knew about my operation of my vehicles, yet I was amazed to find that it is impossible to fit    x-country tyres to the five door! Apparently none of the tyre manufacturers supply cross country or even dual purpose tyres for the seventeen inch wheels fitted. This is supposed to be the best 4 x 4 x far!! My partner's Skoda Vrs car has chunkier tyres than my discovery.

The towing electrics are hidden behind a panel in the bumper. Fine for picking up the kids at school, but no use whatsoever when towing frequently. Connecting the electrics requires the operator to kneel behind the vehicle with a two pence piece and remove a very flimsy panel from the bumper, this is invariably coated with grit or mud and looks as though it will not last very long, the tiny plastic lugs that secure it would be better on an Airfix kit. Replacing said panel is even more fiddly and requires overalls to be worn. Cruise control cannot be retro fitted, which was not pointed out until after I took delivery. This was a godsend whilst trailer towing on the motorway with previous vehicles. Loading the vehicle is a problem via the rear tailgate and window because of the ridiculous shape of the assembly. The tailgate with its flimsy wires would not support much weight even temporarily, but it cannot be easily removed for loading. How many Disco 3 drivers know for example that if you run out of fuel in a Discovery 3 it is impossible to start without special tooling and has to be trailered to a dealership to be started!!! .....please be serious Land Rover!!! This is ludicrous.

It is apparent that the Disco 3 was only designed for light leisure purposes or the school run, but unfortunately it is not marketed as such. The problems only become apparent after the first couple of weeks or at least a thousand miles of ownership. Which poses a problem when trying to return the vehicle as unfit for purpose.

It is a great pity that Discovery 3, Range Rover Sport and the Range Rover are now aimed at this same market, leaving only the hopelessly outdated Defender for use by operators such as myself. This is a massive gap in the market which should have been addressed by Land Rover or their masters, Ford.

I persevered with the beloved Defender for many years but gave up when faced with a drive from Lancashire to Kings Lynn and return, followed the next day by Lancashire to Holyhead in N Wales and return, followed by a three day enforced rest period suffering from many Defender induced ailments.

I am a great fan of the Land Rover marque and have owned many vehicles including two Range Rovers three Discoveries one Defender 90 TD5 and a double cab Defender 110. over the past few years.

I seriously think that Land Rover have been taken over by their Marketing Department and are producing only vehicles for the top end of the leisure market, with the exception of Defender which is now only for Farm use or the like. This scenario would be fine were it not for the fact that their marketing literature proclaims all of their models to be "The best 4 x 4 by far" when in fact they are hoping that no one actually uses them seriously for this purpose unless supported by Land - Rover corporately on televised trips across Africa or through the Amazon, no doubt at collossal cost and with attendant mechanics and lots of spares.

My problems so far ( In twelve days ) are, 1. Drivers seat slowly drops whilst driving, to its lowest position after being initially raised.

2. Door open warning permanently on and vehicle beeps horn whilst locking even though all doors and tailgates etc., are tightly shut.

3. Wipers have a very annoying rubbery squeak at the vertical position on every sweep. These are actual problems with the vehicle rather than a design fault.

My dealer Hillendale states, correctly that they will attempt to rectify the faults, hopefully they can! However, they were still rectifying faults on my Discovery 2 after the two and a half years of ownership from new. At no point was it ever fault free.

I have a horrible feeling of "Deja vu" in the pit of my stomach. It's all happening again! 

Fool me for believing that Land Rover under their new masters could produce a vehicle that will do "What it states on the Box"

Still a staunch Anglophile,

RG

Goto disco3.co.uk

I have been exchanging emails with a chap who only identifies himself as Chris M - and has posted a few comments on this blog under the pseudonym disco. He says he is a proud satisfied Discovery 3 owner and highly recommends disco3.co.uk as a resource for Discovery 3 owners.

I remember using this resource at the time I had all my problems with my first and second build Discovery 3. Early days then as I remember it to be a lightweight, shallow resource. I took a look through it today and its looks pretty comprehensive: so if you have landed on this blog and have done so because you are in a pickle with your Disco 3 and you are looking for some help stay here for a while: you will realise that you are not alone, there are many frustrated Disco 3 owners, but then take a look at disco3.co.uk and you will find a good resource which will be handy when you have to educate the Land Rover Dealer Networks on how to solve your vehicles problems. The truth is that Land Rover is probably kicking most of the skeletons under the carpet... nothing in my experience led me to believe that the poor dealer was being supported by Land Rover in any way.

Did readers know that when Land Rover decided to give me my money back when the second build vehicle also failed, that I offered to hand over this website to Land Rover so they had a frequently visited site that they could use to engage their customers in an open transparent conversation? They declined the offer, perhaps readers may want to suggest why? Perhaps its got to do with the fact that they can't afford to have an open, transparent conversation about the quality of their products?

I recently met a person who used to sell Land Rovers He now works for a competitor and is totally amazed that the pre-delivery-service on the competitor product was such a routine experience. He told me that it wasn't an exception that his Land Rover dealer had to replace engines, wiring, steering and other major components at the pre-delivery service! That maybe anecdotal but its sure gives you a flavour of the Quality problems of this brand that promises so much.

Michael and I exchanged a few emails - he thinks I am just a big whinger and not being that fair on Land Rover. I tried to convince him that I don't have anything against the vehicle. Its probably the best SUV on the market - it promises a lot, its performance etc is superb... but my two vehicles had huge problems. He also argues that on a new vehicle this can be expected which I can sort of accept. BUT... the big problem I have with Land Rover is the arrogant - head-in-the-sand attitide of the Land Rover senior executives. If they had been transparent and honest about the challenges they were having (like Charles Dunstone at Talk Talk)_then that would be one thing... the problem was that I was pushed by them to take my issues into the public arena - they told me my experiences were isolated... guess what guys - they aren't - just read some of the people who comment on this blog and at disco3.co.uk

So why do I continue to recommend to readers to avoid the Discovery 3: its simple: Land Rover UK (and probably its owners Ford too) just don't have the culture of Customer Care. They don't manage the customer relationship professionally and have an antiquated dealer model - to top it all, I think they are old fashioned, arrogant big-wigs who are steering the Land Rover Brand into a place that not even the best 4x4xfar can get them out of. Thats my experience anyway and I am not alone.

Update

I thought I would update my readers on my life without the Land Rover Discovery 3. I must say everytime I drive past a Discovery 3 I secretly mutter under my breath "... poor people" - meaning the owners of the Disco 3 although I could also be referring to the management of Land Rover!

For those of you who are not familiar with my story, I was one of the first owners of a Discovery 3 in the UK and after it broke down on me with an electrical melt-down: I managed to get Land Rover to replace it with a build 2 vehicle. That also suffered the same ailments as the first one with 400 miles on the clock and after fielding dozens and dozens of emails from drivers in a similar position I decided to take back my money and return the Discovery to Land Rover. So ended my relationship with that wonderful brand that was at least 15 years old. Anyway, I was well rid of the people at Land Rover and the vehicle.

I still receive a couple of emails a week from people in a similar position asking for help. The site still attracts 300 viewers a week and I have a number of emails from people thanking me from saving them from the perils of Land Rover Discovery 3 ownership: they have opted for the competitors products. In fact, I have used this website's clout to replace a Disco 3 in New York - so it looks like the quality is a US problem too - wake up FORD!

In a competitor review, I decided (almost a year ago) to wait for the Audi Q7 which arrives in 6 weeks time - I am terribly excited. In the meantime, I purchased an Audi A6 Avant - which I have to say is the best car I have ever driven. Its comfortable, spacious and above all I have not had a stitch of trouble from it. I hope that the Q7 can follow in its footsteps.

In fact, I have been so impressed with the Audi build quality, customer service experience and overall brand - we are buying an A3 Sportback for my wife.

I am busy putting together a blog to share with you my experiences of the Q7 - you can find it at www.q7blog.com

Remember: DO NOT PURCHASE a Land Rover Discovery 3 - you will live to regret it if you have a similar experience to me as countless other owners have too.

Audi Q7 wins over Land Rover Discovery 3

So let's recap if you just joined this sorry tale.

November 2004 - Bought Discovery 3 HSE First Build - electronic melt down - Park Brake Failure - car left us stranded - took Land Rover 3 weeks to figure out what was wrong after changing many components.

July 2005 After the launch of this blog and exerting huge pressure on Land Rover - they replace my Build 1 car with a brand new Build 2 car - electronics system goes wrong with 400 miles on the clock! They replace the passenger air bag.

I give them a second chance - this is now news to the readers - the car goes wrong once again - with a Suspension Fault, Park Brake Failure and Transmission Fault all in the same week. I then am given a loan Discovery 3 SE which in a week also has a Park Brake Failure! So Land Rover replaces the loan car with a Range Rover Sport. This car is built on the same chassis as the Discovery 3 and uses the same electronic components. Guess what - this too goes wrong - Park Brake Failure!!

So I throw up my hands in the air and tell Land Rover that they have a problem - failure of 4 different Vehicles - yet they tell me this fault is somehow connected to me personally. Trying to blame my blackberry device claiming interference!

So they took the car back and refunded my money in full and I am no longer a Land Rover ower - but I continue to get a few hundred hits a day on this site and I am going to make sure that prospective owners are fully aware of the terrible QA problems this car suffers from.

Only today I got a comment posting from Garrick who says:

Thanks for the blog info. My 97 Range Rover and I have a love/ hate relationship, I love it when its working. My wife and I, are now shopping for a new car, and I thought that since the LR3 was redesigned from the ground up, and financed with tons of money from Ford, that maybe, this vehicle would be the one to change the LR reputation. But after reading the JD Power review, the Intelichoice review, and this blog, I have to (regretedly) admit that this may not be the LR3 I had hoped it would be, which is disapointing because there is so much I love about the vehicle. That post about the spare key losing its charge, is so typical, LR does not think it through; what are all the problems that may arise when the key loses its charge? My advice to LR is this, make it bullet proof. Don't build a vehicle that is supposed to go anywhere off road, but can't be trusted to go to France for a couple of weeks. Get back to your LR roots, which is an off road vehicle that is trusted, trusted like a well bred horse, a vehicle that is more like an old friend, that you know you can depend on when you need him. LR is anything but that right now.

So aren't you wondering what I spent the £45k on? I am waiting for this:

Its the Audi Q7 - it looks amazing - Seven Seats too and everything and more than the Disco 3 fails to deliver - the difference is: its built with German Precision and Quality- great Diesel Engine too , on the Chassis of the Touareg/Porsche Cayenne but with a little added Audi finesse. I am on the waiting list and Audi have sold me an A6 Avant in the meantime. So I am counting down to mid-2006. My wife & I just love the Audi A6 though and every time we drive it: we are reminded of just how we trust, respect and admire this Great Solid German Brand. We are left wondering why we ever gave Land Rover a chance. They failed us.

I also decided on an Audi dealership outside London - I was right - you get better attention and care - so if you are interested in adding your name to mine on the waiting list then email Peter Barker who will go the extra mile for you I am sure.

After talking to a vehicle journalist the other day, I now undertsand why Ford in the US is starting to get sick and tired of the lack of Quality coming out of the workforce in the UK - expect to see production moved to the US soon - sorry for Brit Bashing here but its true. The quality is just not there guys - something has to be done.

I am back with lots of news!

Apologies to you all - I am now back proudly unveiling our brand new daughter Imogen Anna Melrose! (Riding the steep learning curve of fatherhood has kept me away from my blogging temporarily- but I am now used to the sleep deprivation - so here's to a renewed energy on the blog posting front!)

Lots has happened since I last posted - not limited to the arrival of Imogen!

Imogen was driven home in a brand new Audi A6 Avant - Land Rover cut me a cheque and refunded the full purchase price of my second Discovery 3 HSE - and boy am I glad to see the back of it. In the next post I will tell you the sorry story.

PS Land Rover - you've just enjoyed the calm before the storm - please don't think you've seen the back of me - there is too much meat on this bone and consumers deserve to hear it straight!

Update

Its been a week since I posted so I thought I would update my readers.

My 2nd Discovery was returned to me and seems to behaving itself, the guys at Stratstone of Mayfair (the dealer) were super helpful and understanding and hopefully I have seen the end of my personal strife... the car is great when it works, lets hope it continues to work!

In the meantime, Mike Mulholland, Land Rover Customer Services Manager, has been in touch with most of the Land Rover owners and is in the process of resolving their issues: I have had several emails thanking me for a great platform. I am sure Mike gets as much thrill out of a happy customer as I do!

I am still waiting for him to respond to the 14 questions, and he has indicated that they are in the process of doing so and mentioned something about last friday. I can only assume they are genuinely busy and I do believe we will see a response from Land Rover.

Keep your comments and emails coming into Landrover@haveyoursay.com . I will only forward these on to Mike if you can justify why this is a last resort measure and that you have tried to resolve your case through the dealership network but without success.

Action from Land Rover

I have some positive news to report. I am starting to pass on angry and frustrated customers  letters and contact details to Mike MUlholland of Land Rover and it would appear that he is following them up.

This is great news - much of my objective with this site has been met. I have set up an alias which directs your email straight to Mike Mulholland, Customer Serivices Manager of Land Rover. Email him at mike.mulholland@haveyoursay.com directly. However, please use this only as a last resort. To be fair on the organisation you should first take up any issues with your dealership.

If you don't achieve resolution from Mike and Land Rover, then write to me at landrover@haveyoursay.com

I am still waiting for the 14 questions to be answered my Land Rover either online or interview. Both ways they will be available on this site.